Hello, I'm a big fan of Linux from India and I have read quite a few posts on this forum where people indulge in bashing Linux.

I just want it to be known that if Microsoft and IBM were allowed to have their way, then third-world countries like India would be enslaved by the cartel of the global hardware and software giants.

It is a very genuine concern to me and I am very glad that there exists an alternative to Microsoft's products which (in my opinion) are highly priced and highly over-rated.

Forums like these need encouragement and I fully support the Linux community throughout the world.

For many people on this forum, you may be able to afford MS products. OK go ahead and use them, but please do not indulge in bashing Linux. It hurts me a lot because there's a saying in my native tongue (tamil) which is roughly equivalent to:

"Don't look a gift horse in the mouth."

I am not starting a political debate here, but definitely if the poorer countries of the world are to become IT giants then we need freedom and lower costs of hardware and software. And Linux helps in lowering software costs, which is our most important thing. Sure, Linux has faults, but doesn't everything else?

Here's a concrete issue:
Today MS Windows XP sells for about Rs. 3000 or 4000 in India. Well, I can tell you that there are hundreds of thousands of talented young men and women in software companies who earn just about Rs. 5000 or 6000 (especially in the smaller companies). We cannot even afford to pay for our talent so why must we waste our money on an OS like MS Windows and support Bill Gates?

My final word: Here's my hearty congratulations to members of this forum who use their time and energy to answer questions and help support Linux. Keep doing it because the IT world needs Linux. I am lucky enough to own a personal computer today, but even I cannot afford those expensive software that MS keeps churning out. I need Linux for my work...

Thanks, again!

Erm.... a fair point about Microsoft - but what have IBM got to do with it?

Perhaps it Intel...starts with "i"

if you feel upset about the bashing that goes on here... never ever go to linuxsucks.org.
it seems most members are linux users, who argue condtructivly....

but there are a few idiots, who hate linux for an unknown reason.. when you ask them, they say its because linus is... well.... lets say its a personal attack on linux torvalds based on, nothing.

its quite funny reealy...

whenever an argument braekes out, the linux side talks of virii, kernel flexability, value for money, and performance..... where the windows side just repeat in capital letters nonsence about linux being a sh1t eating communist....

in a world where MS insults poor countries with software like XP started edition.. we need linux !

Software aside though, Bill Gates is probably an OK little nerd. He uses his billions of dollars to do stuff like funding TB and HIV/AIDS research - which is something India needs more urgently than free software.

Of course, that is no reason why poor countries should also line his pockets! Everyone should be free to use the OS they want.

I'm curious, do PCs in India have an OS preinstalled normally? If they do, is it easy to get a "clean" one at a reduced cost; after all Rs. 4000 off an Rs. 20,000 PC is not inconsiderable.

Well,

My point is quite simple as far as hardware goes.

Today I cannot afford to buy a branded machine with decent configuration for a reasonable price. Most branded PCs from IBM, Compaq, HP, Dell etcetera are way above my budget. Therefore I am very glad to have the choice of a local assembler and computer parts dealers (who live on a wafer thin margin and who can give me a great deal for a PC with good specs and where I can choose each and every component of my PC).

Similarly I am glad to have the choice of Linux over MS Windows. To me, I simply cannot afford to keep buying and upgrading MS software (As a matter of fact, I still have MS Windows 98 installed because I cannot afford to keep upgrading).

I have nothing against the big software and hardware giants of the world. They have the right to exist just as I do. My point is that the freedom afforded by the local assemblers (on the hardware side) and the existence of Linux (on the OS and software side) is to me a boon and is indispensable. I just want to continue having this freedom of choice.

Edit: As far as pre-installed OSes go, I've to be really wary of the branded dealers because they never seem to give a choice. I once enquired about a PC and found out after lengthly enquiries that the OS is preinstalled and I cannot have a choice about that. In India, customer awareness is pretty low compared to the developed world and there are plenty middlemen who take people (especially the non-techies) for a ride. Assemblers are also good, but again, we must be wary about their credentials before going to them. I'm one of the lucky ones because I can buy the parts separate and then fix up my computer by myself.

I have nothing against Bill Gates' generosity either. But just because he can donate a lot of money to the poor and the downtrodden, that doesn't give him the license to indulge in unfair trade and business practices.

No one can be enslaved unless they let themselves become enslaved. If the government of india would let their citizens have a little freedom then i am sure IBM and MS would not have the ability to enslave anyone.

Not trying to sound cynical or anything, but Bill seems to pump money into areas where there is a big market potential, like india. Or it 'supports' school kids by getting them started on donated windows OS's. Bill Gates does little that isn't about making money in the long run.

Precisely my point. However there are a couple of more issues here. I am greatly troubled by the extremely large size of Microsoft dependence in India. To many, there don't seem to exist any alternatives. Though Linux is beginning to grow here, it still has a very small presence. My hope is that, one day, the public will see Linux as a genuine alternative to Windows and Linux grows to at least 20% of the market share.

Here's a concrete issue:
My cousin owns a small software company where he develops mostly Tax, Legal and Accounting software. Most of his clients are lawyers and Chartered Accountants (who are non-techies as far as computers are concerned). All of them have only Microsoft Windows installed and he is forced to develop his applications on the Microsoft Platform. He spends more on buying, upgrading and maintaining MS Windows, MS Visual Studio and related development tools than on paying his employees' salaries. His profits are slashed almost by 60% because of his dependence on MS. On the one hand, he cannot switch over to Linux as a development platform because of his customers. Neither can he persuade them to adopt Linux. There lies the Catch 22. This situation can only change if people change. And that is a slow, lengthy process.

Recently I saw a series of advertisements run by Microsoft in a famous technology magazine. These ads apparently feature top guys in IT firms in India who claim through their own 'experience' that the TCO of MS products is much less in the long run than the TCO of using Linux. The very juvenility of these ads made me smile. And also made me think... Sure, Microsoft has a large share of the pie in the OS market (both desktop and enterprise). But I think that they realise the potential strength of Linux. That must be a positive sign for Linux and gives me hopes for the future.

Let me reiterate again that I do not wish ill of Microsoft or IBM or any of the other global IT giants. All I am saying that is, at least in my own country, we need to be less dependent on them than we are presently.

Yeah linux is great! The moment saw tux, i instantly fell in love with it. Sometimes I contemplate on permanently eradicating Win XP from my PC but the problem is that I can't play tux racer without having my screen split into 4 to 5 stripes... Is there anything I can do to work around this predicament? If there is there's nothing else that would prevent me from saying that LInux really rocks...

Yes support it.

First off you just explained the entire industry as a whole not just a single country. Second even if people were aware of an alternative that does not mean they would switch. Thrid your cousin is providing a certain service to customers. If they want to use Windows and he has expalined to them that they should look at linux but they don't want to then so be it. If he wants to provide services as he is doing now then he must make the necessary investment. Those people are aware of the options and CHOSE to stick with thwat they had. You saw ads for

MS great thats not childish every company will advertise anyway that they feel will help them. Support from people in high places and that are famous is nothing new.

You keep making it sound like a forced choice and maybe it is. But now that MS has had windows preinstalled for so long do you honestly think people would chose a preinstalled linux over a preinstalled windows even if they were given a choice? IMO Linux is not ready to go out to Joe Shmoe. I feel that it is still to "hardcore" for most people. And I know many people will disagree with me claiming their grandmother uses it just fine but in all honesty I doubt the normal computer user who knows how to install software on windows will get linux for a while. They will be scared of the console scared of the change and god forbid they ever have a need to upgrade to a newer kernel or windows manager.

You also keep mentioning IBM. IBM is one of the largest supporters of Linux in the business enviroment. So I don't know why they are being knocked on. They certainly make their customers aware of the alternative and they are hoping to come out with a Thin client system based off linux.

I also want to mention not only does the global community need to chnage but so does the linux community.

A lot of attacks that seemingly are targeted at MS and their users blatantly from the linux community only turns people off more. They see linux as this dark hacker commmunity with poeple who eats and sleep computers. Thats what I believe is one thign holding back linux is the community. As for the commercial side Companies hate the idea that their software might have to be distributed for free and have little incentive in trying to market towards linux. Somehow the image of Linux has to be changed in the eys of the people. And a less rabid fanbase helps (no offense to anyone but hoenstly thats how the world sees linux users: they see hackers)

I have no issues with Linux I love it and I use it more and more now I just want to try and bring an alternatite view instead of the usual "BURN M$ and WINDOZE TO GROUND RISE LINUX!" type of view.

Stabile007,

First of all, I thank you for your forthright views on the subject.

Now to business

Secondly, I did not mention IBM as pro-linux or anti-MS. I just mentioned it in a different context (with respect to assembled PCs and branded PCs).

Thirdly, I regret to state that I am neither a rabid supporter of MS or Linux. But the fact remains that whatever the philosophies of either community, MS products are priced and proprietary while Linux is (mostly) free and non-proprietary.

I never posted this question as a Linux vs Windows war. I wanted to mention the economics of using Linux or Windows in a third-world country.

See my thread here. I would be the last person to wish to start a flame war or even a heated discussion either way.

I don't wish to see the end of MS just for Linux to grow. There is room in the world for both to flourish and grow.

No hard feelings.

i completley agree with you stabile. i hate it when someone says microshaft or someother lame ass thing like that.