Almost 40 years ago, when I was still fairly young and generally optimistic, a friend of mine was commenting on some human behaviour and stated. "Oh I firmly believe there would be a line of people queued up to cut down the Last Tree on Earth". My view now? To quote Bob Dylan "It's not dark yet but it's gettin' there" Some people's children, eh?

Here's a story from today's local rag which seems germane to this thread. It's about real climate change stuff happening on the ground right now.

https://pilotonline.com/news/governm...f69bd7ecd.html

I was talking to Second Daughter, who lives in Montana. She told me of how she and a friend made a point of vising Glacier National Park recently. They wanted to go while it still has glaciers . . . .

look what i got when trying to access the article:
that's a first for me.

i could read it through tor, though.

I am concerned about the loss of the Baobabs both individually and as a "wake up call" for what's occurring in our closed ecosystem but as I mentioned the baobabs are likely to soon become the least of our worries cause and effect-wise, and at least part of the reason is that according to recent studies during the period of 1992 to 2012 we lost ~3,000,000,000,000 (that's trillion) tons of ice just in Antarctica. This is entirely unprecedented (and on an alarmingly unexpected scale even by climate change experts) since Antarctica began cooling and forming glaciers over 30 million years ago. Since hominids didn't appear till 15 million years ago one could say this warming turn is unprecedented roughly twice as long as our fairly distant ancestors began to walk upright or 20 times as long ago as our first identifiable direct ancestors appeared. This is probably not a good sign.

Don't sweat it. They are being replaced by plastic trash bags.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKCN1J22YW

Naw. Global change because we don't know how to wipe our butts aint real. I shake my head and grin at nay sayers when looking at pics like this

Yeah, probably half the bottom of the ocean is covered by em' now too...

Looks to me as if there's a few Trump fanboys in this thread.
Communism != Socialism
Fascism != Socialism

basically the same, in different words:
https://xkcd.com/1732/

Of course. There will always be young men who see the world as Black and White, Us and Them, and will rise cheering to the sound of the drum and rattling of swords. It feels like simple clarity until and unless one experiences enough of life to realize it's just not that simplistic. Perhaps unfortunately the traits that served the species well in the brutal past are exactly what intelligent men like Sagan and Hawking (to name just two) realize could easily turn against us as we evolve from isolated tribes into global connection and influence that relies on boring production rather than the excitement of the spoils of war.

It doesn't have to be that way:

Arthur Clarke, 2001: A Space Odyssey

California has recorded many 250 year long droughts, Texas has recorded some 50 year long droughts. Always hard to predict weather.

One mans loss is another mans gain usually.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atacama_Desert


"Although the almost total lack of precipitation is the most prominent characteristic of the Atacama Desert, exceptions may occur. In July 2011, an extreme Antarctic cold front broke through the rain shadow, bringing 80 cm (31 in) of snow to the plateau, stranding residents across the region, particularly in Bolivia, where many drivers became stuck in snow drifts and emergency crews became overtaxed with a large number of rescue calls.[16]

In 2012, the altiplano winter brought floods to San Pedro de Atacama.[17][18]

On 25 March 2015, heavy rainfall affected the southern part of the Atacama Desert.[19][20] Resulting floods triggered mudflows that affected the cities of Copiapo, Tierra Amarilla, Chanaral, and Diego de Almagro, causing the deaths of more than 100 people.
Aridity
A flat area of the Atacama Desert between Antofagasta and Taltal

The Atacama Desert is commonly known as the driest nonpolar place in the world, especially the surroundings of the abandoned Yungay town[21] (in Antofagasta Region, Chile).[22] The average rainfall is about 15 mm (0.6 in) per year,[23] although some locations, such as Arica and Iquique, receive 1 to 3 mm (0.04 to 0.12 in) in a year.[24] Moreover, some weather stations in the Atacama have never received rain. Periods up to four years have been registered with no rainfall in the central sector, delimited by the cities of Antofagasta, Calama, and Copiapó, in Chile.[1] Evidence suggests that the Atacama may not have had any significant rainfall from 1570 to 1971.[6]"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e-co2-research
https://www.livescience.com/6166-ice...d-equator.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-n...-was-tropical/
https://phys.org/news/2012-08-tropic...alm-trees.html

How did Trump get pulled into this? If you are going down that route then "there's alot of Marxist fanboys in this thread."

While I'm far closer to an Ayn rand fan than a Karl Marx fan (yuuccchhh!) I'd say Trump got brought in because of his ignorant and misguided withdrawal from the Paris Climate Agreement not to mention his strident tweets on "the greatest hoax the Chinese have ever perpetrated".

I'm also a bit confused as to why ChuangTzu posted The Guardian link which only serves to support my post regarding the timeframe in which Antarctica began cooling but also the source of current climate change - humans. We can forgive the slight inaccuracy about "major melting of the ice caps" as the article is from 2011 before the 10 year study was completed. Here's what I mean ....

and finally

Ayn Rand does make for interesting reads. Regarding The Guardian Link, as with any good information it can usually be utilized by both sides.