LinuxQuestions.org
Visit Jeremy's Blog.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Search this Thread
Old 04-23-2011, 06:06 AM   #31
SigTerm
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Distribution: Slackware 12.2
Posts: 379

Rep: Reputation: 233Reputation: 233Reputation: 233

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coresay View Post
Complexity is not a reason to disqualify something from being a toy.
It is. Once a product made it through mutliple iteration (develop, test, release) and reached certain size, it is not a "toy" anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coresay View Post
Let me ask the OP which OS would he suggest be in control of a nuclear power plant in his home town?
You're derailing the thread into flamewar. I'd suggest you to stop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coresay View Post
Windows should be flawless at this point with ZERO bugs.
Your request is impossible to fulfill. Software of this size cannot be bug free. This also includes Linux system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coresay View Post
You may be sorry, but you are also dead wrong my friend. Fixing bugs is just a matter of resources.
You are mistaken. It is not a matter of resources. It is human nature to make mistakes, so bugs will always remain. To get rid of bugs, you'll need to remove people from software development.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coresay View Post
$18,000,000,000 <- look at all of those zeros!
It doesn't matter. Once development team reached certain size, adding more people or resources will either change nothing or make things worse.

Last edited by SigTerm; 04-23-2011 at 06:19 AM.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 07:18 AM   #32
Coresay
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Apr 2011
Distribution: CentOS
Posts: 8

Rep: Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by SigTerm View Post
It is. Once a product made it through mutliple iteration (develop, test, release) and reached certain size, it is not a "toy" anymore.


You're derailing the thread into flamewar. I'd suggest you to stop.
I don't see any flaming going on, only provocation by others by attacking me personally to which I have restrained myself quite nicely. I'd suggest you calm down and not make false accusations. That could be viewed as disrespectful and underhanded. It would be better to focus on the other excellent replies to this post which make good points and I think answers the OP's questions very well (while ignoring his implication that Unix proponents are suffering from memes).

So, back to the topic at hand. I take issue with the OP's premise that Unix proponents are suffering from some sort of meme, or any other delusion. Therefore, discussing the why and how this alleged trumped-up meme originated is not worthy. So far, no one as been able to provide any evidence that Unix proponents are infected with memes. Of course, the whole idea is preposterous, but I'm willing to stand by and hear the evidence. Maybe someone should email Richard Dawkins and ask him what he thinks. But, being as intelligent as he is, I would bet that he's a Unix guy.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 11:14 AM   #33
DavidMcCann
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jul 2006
Location: London
Distribution: CentOS, Salix
Posts: 2,945

Rep: Reputation: 767Reputation: 767Reputation: 767Reputation: 767Reputation: 767Reputation: 767Reputation: 767
I think one has to look at the history.

IBM and Microsoft started working on a GUI (yielding Windows and OS2 when they fell out) because people were looking at the Mac, Amiga, and Atari ST and saying "Why can't we have something like that?" They were providing a new feature for small computers that were seldom networked. The problems started as PCs got bigger, as they started networking, and as Microsoft tried to muscle in on the server market. Scaling up is never easy.

Linux started because people wanted to get a PC with the same sort of OS that you had on mainframes and servers. Obviously the result worked on big computers, because the target of their emulation did, and it worked on small computers because they were simpler.

I suspect those who say "Windows is a toy" are those who have been faced with a Windows server and been frustrated by the GUI getting in their way: like mending a bike with oven gloves on.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 11:33 AM   #34
Mr. Alex
Senior Member
 
Registered: May 2010
Distribution: Arch + X.org + IceWM
Posts: 1,193

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
"Unix is a real OS", "Windows is a toy"
That's what I say!
No, seriously.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 12:13 PM   #35
SigTerm
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Distribution: Slackware 12.2
Posts: 379

Rep: Reputation: 233Reputation: 233Reputation: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
IBM and Microsoft started working on a GUI
Incorrect. The first GUI interface has been created in 1973 by xerox. See Xerox Alto.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 03:34 PM   #36
MTK358
LQ 5k Club
 
Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,443
Blog Entries: 3

Rep: Reputation: 713Reputation: 713Reputation: 713Reputation: 713Reputation: 713Reputation: 713Reputation: 713
In my opinion, the reason Windows is sometimes called a "toy" is becasue it has a dumbed down point-and-click interface and tries to protect you from yourself all the time (keeping you from understanding or modifying the OS in the process).

Unix, on the other hand, is very modular and you can modify any part of it, and it also has all these powerful commands that let you do even the most complex, boring, repetitive tasks automatically with a few keystrokes.

When I first started with Linux, the thing that really hit me the most was its modularity. I couldn't stop thinking about how amazing it is to have an OS made up of interchangable building blocks that you are free to understand, replace, and experiment with, especailly compared to the impenetrable, secret black box that is Windows.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 04:04 PM   #37
Telengard
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Distribution: Kubuntu 8.04
Posts: 579
Blog Entries: 8

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 147Reputation: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coresay View Post
I don't see any flaming going on, only provocation by others by attacking me personally to which I have restrained myself quite nicely. I'd suggest you calm down and not make false accusations. That could be viewed as disrespectful and underhanded. It would be better to focus on the other excellent replies to this post which make good points and I think answers the OP's questions very well (while ignoring his implication that Unix proponents are suffering from memes).
I don't believe I ever attacked you, directly or indirectly. I apologized for linking to your post in another thread because you seemed to disapprove of having it associated with this thread. I have openly pleaded with you to stop bringing bias into this thread, seemingly to no avail.

Quote:
I take issue with the OP's premise that Unix proponents are suffering from some sort of meme, or any other delusion. Therefore, discussing the why and how this alleged trumped-up meme originated is not worthy. So far, no one as been able to provide any evidence that Unix proponents are infected with memes. Of course, the whole idea is preposterous, but I'm willing to stand by and hear the evidence. Maybe someone should email Richard Dawkins and ask him what he thinks. But, being as intelligent as he is, I would bet that he's a Unix guy.
Fine, you may disagree with my use of the word meme. So far I've struggled with how to express my interest in this topic in such a way as to garner useful, informative responses. As I started the thread it really is on me to explain myself the best I can.

What I would view as a positive contribution to the thread is historical context. When was the first time you ever heard either of the two phrases from the OP used, either as exact quotes or paraphrased? Who used them and what did they mean?

For purposes of this thread I'm not interested in debate over the merits of Windows vs. Linux (or anything else). Those threads exist in great quantity, and the debate is practically endless.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 04:16 PM   #38
SigTerm
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Distribution: Slackware 12.2
Posts: 379

Rep: Reputation: 233Reputation: 233Reputation: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telengard View Post
When was the first time you ever heard either of the two phrases from the OP used, either as exact quotes or paraphrased?
Actually, it was in this thread. No adult person I ever communicated (online/offline) with (before reading this particular thread) called windows a toy and not a real OS. There were bunch of people claiming that linux is better, there were bunch of people saying windows is for *noobs* ( != "toy OS", and != "not a real OS"), there were few people saying "I dislike Microsoft because of their business practices", and so on, there were mac haters, windows haters, linux haters, mac fanboys, linux fanboys, etc, but I do not remember even a single adult person ever saying or writing that "windows OS is a toy and not a real OS". Maybe I forgot, of course.

As for "Unix is a real OS" - well, the phrase is stating the obvious. Unix is an operating system.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 04:30 PM   #39
Telengard
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Distribution: Kubuntu 8.04
Posts: 579
Blog Entries: 8

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 147Reputation: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by SigTerm View Post
Actually, it was in this thread. No adult person I ever communicated (online/offline) with (before reading this particular thread) called windows a toy and not a real OS.
I remember at least one of my college professors saying these things. I didn't know at the time whether he was joking or not, nor could I tell you exactly what he meant. Wish I'd interrogated him further about it, but that was a very busy time for me.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 06:49 PM   #40
silvyus_06
Member
 
Registered: Oct 2010
Distribution: Ubuntu 10.04 , Linux Mint Debian Edition , Microsoft Windows 7
Posts: 386

Rep: Reputation: 49
boring.. get this thread in the linux vs windows thing.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 07:40 PM   #41
XavierP
Moderator
 
Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Kent, England
Distribution: Lubuntu
Posts: 19,174
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 428Reputation: 428Reputation: 428Reputation: 428Reputation: 428
Since this has gone all over the show, it is now locked. I think the original question was not focused enough (or incorrectly focused) (or our members are incorrectly focused) to get enough meaningful responses.
 
  


Closed Thread

Tags
unix, windows


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Does mounting HDD with "flush" & "sync" have any real use? Mr. Alex Linux - Hardware 1 02-03-2011 03:46 AM
What's the real difference between "userdel" and "deluser"? Mr. Alex Linux - Newbie 4 08-07-2010 10:28 AM
net working eth0 eth1 wlan0 "no connection" "no LAN" "no wi-fi" Cayitano Linux - Newbie 5 12-09-2007 07:11 PM
Standard commands give "-bash: open: command not found" even in "su -" and "su root" mibo12 Linux - General 4 11-11-2007 10:18 PM
LXer: Displaying "MyComputer", "Trash", "Network Servers" Icons On A GNOME Desktop LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 04-02-2007 08:31 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:59 PM.

Main Menu
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
identi.ca: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration