The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Originally Posted by dugan Just out of curiosity, how much of your understanding of this came from creationist sources? Reading mainstream scientists quoted in creationist sources still counts as reading creationist sources.

Yes, I got my information from creationist sources. Nevertheless, my source doesn't make my statement or my information wrong. Besides, your arugment is in ad fontem argument, which means that it is an argument against the source-this is considered a fallacy. Since it is a fallacy it has nothing at all to do with the argument.

Going round and round in circles people. No one will ever take someone elses discussion as valid.

Originally Posted by Nbiser Yes, I got my information from creationist sources. Nevertheless, my source doesn't make my statement or my information wrong. Besides, your arugment is in ad fontem argument, which means that it is an argument against the source-this is considered a fallacy. Since it is a fallacy it has nothing at all to do with the argument.

There hasn't been an argument made yet. You have merely stated your position and I have simply asked how your position has been informed.

Moderator note: please stop all personal attacks immediately. The LQ is about friendly discussions, not about flamewars. If not, this thread will be closed.

Originally Posted by k3lt01 Going round and round in circles people. No one will ever take someone elses discussion as valid.

Especially opinions (by definition arguable) like gods existing, this is.

Page 14 #208 Hell will never scare smart. http://behaviorinnate.blogspot.com/2...of-whorls.html

If I was born 100s of years ago (or poor and uneducated)
I would believe in gods but thanks to that history (and my location(?))
I can save my sacrifices for good, like science and love.
Giving a man a fish gives you more power.

The only one we must defeat is ourself!

Originally Posted by jamison20000e Especially opinions (by definition arguable) like gods existing, this is.

There is very little in this thread that is anything but opinion and when someone asks for facts all we get is opinion.

Originally Posted by k3lt01 There is very little in this thread that is anything but opinion and when someone asks for facts all we get is opinion.

Very little could be said, nor be said more beautifully and poetically and masterfully (in the English language ...), than Job chapters 38-40 in the King James Version of the Bible. "Where were you when the foundations of the world were laid ...?"

"The facts," about such matters, are not for Man to know. We are, quite frankly, not capable of it ... any more than Moses could have understood a microchip.

Now, there's nothing amiss with seeking to know ... we've got brains and we're quite expected to use them. But if there's just one thing that your thinking should tell you, it's that there are hard limits to thinking. Don't stare at a book that your preacher gave you and (probably never actually having read the whole thing through even once ...), somehow expecting that magically hidden within its pages you'll find all the answers in the Universe, just waiting for your "infallible" interpretation to prize them out and hit your fellow Christian over the head with them.

Far better advice is to take your unknown number of years and try to do some good with it ... or, at the very least, try to do no harm. You may never know just how much harm you have done, even though your intentions were sincere and even devout, just by trying too hard to be sincere and devout. You don't have to correct your brother's "errors." He doesn't work for you...

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs Very little could be said, nor be said more beautifully and poetically and masterfully (in the English language ...), than Job chapters 38-40 in the King James Version of the Bible. "Where were you when the foundations of the world were laid ...?" "The facts," about such matters, are not for Man to know. We are, quite frankly, not capable of it ... any more than Moses could have understood a microchip. Now, there's nothing amiss with seeking to know ... we've got brains and we're quite expected to use them. But if there's just one thing that your thinking should tell you, it's that there are hard limits to thinking. Don't stare at a book that your preacher gave you and (probably never actually having read the whole thing through even once ...), somehow expecting that magically hidden within its pages you'll find all the answers in the Universe, just waiting for your "infallible" interpretation to prize them out and hit your fellow Christian over the head with them. Far better advice is to take your unknown number of years and try to do some good with it ... or, at the very least, try to do no harm. You may never know just how much harm you have done, even though your intentions were sincere and even devout, just by trying too hard to be sincere and devout. You don't have to correct your brother's "errors." He doesn't work for you...

When people "preach" either side of this discussion and make statements that they say are fact and demand that others provide proof then they need to be prepapred to provide the same level of proof they expect to be given. This is a discussion where 2 worlds collide. A "christian" will more often than not come out with the statements Blue comes out with while an "athiest" will more often than not come out with the statements Tobi come out with. Humanity is capable of this discussion but, and this is just my opinion, only if the 2 sides can stop and put aside their own dogmatic approach.

If your preacher has never read the book through more than once, if ever, then there is a problem. I wasn't going to go here but considering your post really looks as though it is directed at me I am going to. "My preacher" died in his bed an 12.09am on Septmeber 6th last year, 4 days after his 70th birthday. My father was that man I sat in the room he was in (his bedroom which he didn;t leave much in his last 12 months. I called the ambulance, the police, and the funeral director. I know how often he read the book at the very least because he read it every year in 5 chapters a day increments. As well as being a minister of religion he was also a funeral director for many years of his life. I have been around religion (christianity, Islam, Hindu, Bahai, etc.) for the larger portion of my life and seen good and bad work in the name of religion. I have also seen good and bad work in the name of science. I will, in a heart beat, discuss things like this on street corners with any street corner evangelist and/or any street corner athiest because many of them are not capable of expressing what is actually written/known. If that causes damage then so be it, I can live with that because someone who believes something due to being taught false things is, when they find out the person who told them something is wrong, going to start questioning everything they know.

My personal beliefs are neither here nor there in this discussion and I have deliberately kept them out of it and I will never inform any of you what my beliefs are. My concern here is the aftermath of discussions like this. It starts with Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny where kids are deliberately taught about something that does not exist. In Australia we have a thing called Hillsong and it is a new age pentecostal "church". It is possibly the biggest single "church" in Sydney, maybe even Australia, and they "preach" infantile christianity. I know, personally, of many people who have left that group and have felt as though their lives were a waste and are hollow. Why do they feel that? because they found out later that what is being "preached" has nothing to do with what is actually written. That to me is psychologically damaging. I have no problem with people having blind faith, just like I have no problem with people needing proof for everything it is afterall a matter of each to his/her own. What I do have a problem with is people who are so adamant that their way is the only way and will twist things to "prove" they are correct.

If you dare . . . bluebounty.net/laymansreflection

Originally Posted by bluegospel If you dare . . . bluebounty.net/laymansreflection

We are all born into different acceptances, some won't see past them. Smash the hard-dive and AI (once its here thanks to life(.)) won't go to???

Science will never answer many things but is not blind by faith...

Originally Posted by jamison20000e We are all born into different acceptances, some won't see past them. Smash the hard-dive and AI (once its here thanks to life(.)) won't go to??? Science will never answer many things but is not blind by faith...

There is blind faith, and there is seeing faith.

See is believing...

Most religions believe\teach for a good cause, for the most part; but are only human.

Originally Posted by jamison20000e See is believing... Most religions believe\teach for a good cause, for the most part; but are only human.

Most religions are just as you've stated. Christ is the exception.

Originally Posted by bluegospel If you dare . . . bluebounty.net/laymansreflection

There is or should be a limit to what you can ask for. I'm not saying you should up your game or call it quits but I hope there's more to what you aim to achieve here than just regurgitate old posts. And else it's been about a month you posted elsewhere in other LQ fora. So maybe it's time you go help somebody else for a while? After all that's LQ's main purpose...

I believe with all my heart: all religions come from collective *human* thoughts. Everyone has some good, some bad plus learning\developing curves...

"God" did not just pick some time in infinity and say, "o.k. now!"