The Faith & Religion mega Thread

For some reality is place where there is no God(s). For others reality was created by God(s). And we can't go far beyond that. And this thread goes as usual: people claiming to be atheists, agnostics often end at rather pointless critics of Christianity. It is pointless cause most remarks here are just made by ignorance: @bussiness_kid is playing a role of prof. Langdon pupil. "Da Vinci Code " is just work of fiction. @sundialsvcs is close to giving Christians advice how to read Bible. Read your posts guys. Most of arguments you provide here have long gray beards. Just try to accept: religion won't disappear. Try to be more constructive: instead of searching for people who think, feel like you. You are so attached to reality. So it is time to accept reality: there was religion - there will be religion. And you can do nothing about this.

"God help us all."

The history of religion ... that is to say, of "religious institutions" ... is delightfully human. "Warts and all."

@igadoter: I'll never call any such thing "ignorance." Of course "religion will not disappear." It is a fundamental part of "being human." It is part of our collective heritage, and a thing to be treasured.

(Speaking impersonaly now ...) Just walk outside tonight and look up at the stars . . . If you do not "wonder," then there is something wrong with you.

In actual practice, the word "religion" actually has two distinct meanings. One is personal – "just you and the stars." The other is political, and it just might be the most powerful "political thing" that exists. So, as we continue to add to this thread which now has more than 9,700 posts, we must be careful to define our terminology. "Are we describing 'how we think,' or 'how someone else says that we should think?'" Both possibilities are equally likely in this context.

- - -

And – if I may politely say – to be very careful that we do not "pass judgement upon" any other participant. Unintentionally or otherwise. "You are not me, and I am not you. We are both ships, passing in the night, both of us on our way to nobody-knows."

About six months ago, one of my wife's cousins fell dead in the shower, dying so fast that he couldn't turn off the water, right after completing his customary two-mile morning run. And, last week, I was on a camping trip when one of my mates collapsed while I was talking to him. "He didn't make it." So, yeah ...

When they say, "live every day as though it could be your last," they weren't kidding.

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs Christians, for example, usually read their Bibles without ever considering what process resulted in the selection and arrangement of its contents. Nor that there were many other documents which "didn't make the cut." The story of "how the Bible came to be" is also quite fascinating ... and, "utterly human."

These are your words. I am sure you have no idea how Christians read Bible. All divisions in Christianity came from how to read and understand Bible.

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs [i] And – if I may politely say – to be very careful that we do not "pass judgement upon" any other participant. Unintentionally or otherwise. "You are not me, and I am not you. We are both ships, passing in the night, both of us on our way to nobody-knows."

I am correct. Read title of this thread. It is not thread about Christianity. But religion. Try to keep this thread to be general. Instead of hijacking it for personal purpose to express your disappointment about Christianity.

@igodater: I had to look up Prof Langdon. And I agree the Da Vinci Code was a work of fiction. What's your point?

I think the majority of "Christians" do not read the Bible - which is a problem. This little 2½ minute video by a comedian highlights things in nearly every Christian religion which are not in the Bible https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhkbp35rgJ0 People somehow manage not to see those things, like a different mental department deals with their social life.

About reading/Interpreting Holy books, Islam is worse than Christianity if anything. Muhammed was illiterate, and the Koran came 60 years later. Not only do Muslims not know their holy books, but most of how they practise their faith wasn't written at all, but is 'Hadith,' traditions, supposedly suggested by or tacitly approved by Muhammed, by his not objecting to decisions made. Versions of Hadith even include the opinions Muhammed's daughter & very extended family. Of course, it was only written after they were all long dead. And Eastern religions generally were not written - contemporaneously at any rate. But doubt Islam, and your relatives bury your corpse

The poll at the top makes clear that atheists or agnostics can vote on this forum. So others are welcome, but the topics debated have been, like the posters, mainly Christian, or anti-Christian.

@sundialsvcs: Look at the stars! You may have been quoting psalm 8. But there has been and continues to be a slide towards atheism. Many people don't see anything in the stars. Faith is not a possession of all, in fact it's in the minority, according to the poll. There's also commitment to consider

Originally Posted by Anonymous Going to Church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.

There's a lot fewer Christians than Churchgoers.

You don't get it, do you @bussiness_kid? Do you really think in place like this - devoted to discussing operational system - I will be discussing most personal and most important things to me? I had situation with my close relative. We have a talk about my beliefs. And that person summarized what I said as "fantasy". My beliefs which constitute my life. Then came to me that sentence to mind from Matthew 7:6 (part of it): "do not cast your pearls before swine". In plain text it can mean that as do not discuss with some people: they turn on you and start laugh on you or worse. They are not capable to show even a faint of respect or appreciation.

I get it all right. You have your beliefs, I certainly have mine, but neither of us want to go too deep here, in keeping with Matt 7:6. Then maybe in line with Colossians 4:6 you could cool it a little?

Originally Posted by business_kid A supreme pagan figure like the Pope has been around since 1500BCE or even before.

This is why I called you a pupil of prof. Langdon. Besides you don't even understand than talking about Bible is possible only in very general form. Historical meaning, historical events. Biblical description of creation. However how Christians read the Bible is not possible to discus here. Just it is far too important.

Oldie but goodie: 'The Dancing Wu Li Masters' by Gary Zukav (Wu Li = Physics).

Reality is a fact! Proving or blindly believing all the silly ways gods, may or may not have created, as listed here and\or infinitely is just us wasting time.

The reason humanity is moving forward is because we cut religion from schools not made of fools... but, again we all are silly at chimes.

Before I make a statement, I'd like to remind igadoter that although I am an atheist, I do respect people and their right to their beliefs, and in text here I think I demonstrated that respect and tolerance for you, igadoter, as a person deserving of such... and you, in your own way, thanked me. I sincerely hope you meant that as much as I meant my well-wishing.

My respect for people and their rights does not include silence on subjects of accuracy and truthfulness, since respect is earned and "a two way street". Put simply I respect your positions only insofar as I agree. Being human includes being able to criticize what is viewed as error if one can manage to not be vicious about it and can act like a gentleman. I try to act in manner in which I prefer to be likewise treated.

I do view blind adherence to ancient dogma as fantasy but I also think that one area of thinking doesn't define you as a person. Obviously it can in the extremely devout radicals, like Witch Hunters, Crusaders and jihadists, but it doesn't have to. That said, I bother to write in this thread because it alarms me how many religious people seem close-minded and intolerant, not just of ideas, but of the individual in his/her entirety. This is not just "a Christian thing" but in most religions, especially those that have enjoyed substantial political power. Frankly the idea of "Death to Infidels" is quite obviously not just the province and outlook of Islam. It's common, if often in "sheep's clothing".

I don't expect Religion to disappear anytime soon, but I do want to see it's political power diminish greatly. There is good reason that Lady Justice is often characterized as blind, serving only the facts, not the personality or what group one belongs to... a level playing field whose foundation is Reason.

I wish the indigenous religious people had more political power - but there is no place on European calendars for pagan holidays. Yet.

"As always, gentlepeople ... please remember ... the intended topics are faith and religion, never fellow participants." We're talking about a subject of common interest – not for-nor-against each other.

@Igadoter: I'm not trying to "hijack" anything. Just pointing out what I said above. This is a "charged" topic – we must be careful. I have no particular opinion nor belief to bring to this table, nor any motive to express it, let alone champion it.

@YesItsMe: Quite a few "pagan holidays" are very much on the calendar, just with "Christianized" names. December 25th, for instance, was the first day beyond the Solstice when it was possible to confirm that the days were once again getting longer. (The length of the days and nights changes so little in the days surrounding a Solstice that the only way it's possible to identify the exact day by observation is to count the days and divide by two.)

Here's my contribution from ancient times....

Originally Posted by Old Sicilian Proverb Only a true friend will tell you when your face is dirty

I think they should've added "without malice or judgment" but I think we get the concept anyway.

Essentially many people here have strange concept of reality. Reality for them is like wearing clothes. When discussing with religion people, they wear different clothes than when discussing other things than religion. This reality concepts are just convenient tools to express disappointment about religion. In convincing way. Now the question is where this disappointment comes from?