The Faith & Religion mega Thread

The same reason people fear transcendence is to their moms finding dirty mags, cigarettes and booze under the bed.

I very much have the impression that there is no proof, or disproof of God. I never had much time for the Jesuits, but they did say one thing that struck me as being axiomatic

Originally Posted by Several Jesuits Unless there was something with no beginning, nothing could ever begin

Deists believe it was God, and scientists have only gotten back so far.

I believe in God. It would be trivial for him to give daily proof of his existence, but he refrains. Now that could be because

1. He doesn't exist.
2. He does exist, but only wants a relationship with those who don't need daily proof.

So, the atheist today is free today not to believe, although it might have been dangerous in times gone by.

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs Just walk outside tonight and look up at the stars . . . If you do not "wonder," then there is something wrong with you.

I wouldn't say 'there is something wrong with you,' but that each individual's reaction to contemplating Nature & Creation is a litmus test of their spirituality. I have met spiritual atheists, evolutionists & agnostics, and unspiritual churchgoers & clerics. That is the current and time limited situation.

Nobody needs a conclusive scriptural proof of the time limit (which there is) but just examine the horrible mess we are making of the planet should be enough to convince most folks that the present situation is time limited.

Originally Posted by igadoter It does not matter. You see no evidences for God(s) existence - premises. I see no evidences for God(s) non-existence. It is like claiming that person belief depends on tossing of coin. That's absurd. Did you choose to be atheists tossing coin? If you really want to be honest in inductive conclusions, then from beginning you need to collect evidences pro- and contra-. When person shows bias - then for sure conclusions cannot be accepted. They only aimed at supporting taken from nowhere claim - in other words dogma.

LOL Obviously I will disagree, igadoter. In the case of Creation we can't possibly see anything of the Cause, only the Effect. What can you see in "the Effect" that leads you to assume there are any intelligent entities (Cause) outside of those on Earth? Until we find some in the Effect we cannot in my view assume Intelligence scales outside our Universe, and even that would be a stretch. Do you think you can actually imagine what it would take to be an entity capable of creating this vast Universe? I think that is hubris squared, and certainly an illogical leap of faith..

It is even a greater illogical leap than, "Someone saw unidentified lights in the sky moving oddly > Therefore it must be aliens"

So simply put I see no evidence for the existence of a Creator and considerable that one is highly unlikely and even if it was somehow possible, I couldn't possibly grasp it. I accept my own ignorance of matters of The Cause. We simply don't know enough yet, if ever. Any "conclusions" in that area are imagination at best, worse than canals on Mars and that's close and similar! This is why your acquaintance considers such views as flights of fancy or fantasy. It is far more fanciful than the now obviously mistaken conclusion of Percival Lowell.

Ultimately I am quite unconcerned with whether or not there was a Creator but I am quite concerned with Humanity and how it's individuals reach conclusions.

Paraphrased song by Stevie Wonder - "If you believe in things that you don't understand, you will suffer
Superstition is not the way"

Why hate religionS? Because fairy tales always have a villain!

I work(ed) to make a living. Beside that I hate to have somebody telling me what to do, what to think, what to like...

You wouldn't be able to wear that cotton-bamboo blend... tho most religious people don't follow it all?! Wonder why? Because it's evolving.

No offense to me but this is a silly place to have a religious debate?!.

Open source, software and hardware are evolving to be the future; for smart people and gluttonous corporations alike but some things will never change... one swallow doesn't make a summer.

Originally Posted by enorbet So simply put I see no evidence for the existence of a Creator and considerable that one is highly unlikely and even if it was somehow possible, I couldn't possibly grasp it.

Of course there are evidences. However problem is you for sure reject them completely. For example in name of science. I mean science can fail in other fields of our life - but discussing these evidences - science is for sure correct. Ironic. If science argument does not work then is called Ultimate Reason. Say @jamison2000e is faithful believer in Ultimate Reason. Ultimate Reason judges what is Reasonable, Have Sense, Real - and what is Irrational, Senseless, Unreal in best - Fantasy in worst. This comes with kind of ethic - good people are those who believe in Ultimate Reason. The others can't be treated seriously - so whatever they say is not serious as well. So summarizing - there are evidences but dogmatic atheists always reject them.

OK then, please give a few examples of such evidence, igadoter.

I can't. Because no one here would promise to try to treat them seriously. It is explicit show of bias. I don't want to go into situation to have impression that someone offends my religious feelings. It is not about respectful rejection. Often it is rude, often even pure satire. Did you watch Fellini's "Satyricon"? But in the core these evidences refer to things "which cannot be explained". Personal experience. Decisions people make for seems no reason. People living life seems is not possible.

I would as both enorbet and igadoter not to hijack this thread into an "Atheist vs. Firm Believer" debate, which swiftly turns very nasty, as you will see if you read back down the thread. The rest of us are unlikely to benefit, and such discussions lead to arguments, followed by ad-hominem attacks.

At the moment, studies show an increasing number are choosing atheism. That doesn't make it right, but numerous factors currently influence that trend. I know of no atheist ancient race, although the gods worshipped varied immensely.

@sundialsvcs: When you look up at the stars and wonder, as you clearly do, have your thoughts progressed beyond wonder?

That's because you were taught to believe them or like believing them.

Number 13 could be """fun""" trivia or not only subconsciously could let it be your undoing but only if you were taught so!

A scientist who believes time travel will be possible is less likely to kill someone in the name of gods?

Both believers and non let people kill each other, because we let parents teach their children!

:Edits.

Originally Posted by jamison20000e A scientist who believes time travel will be possible is less likely to kill someone in the name of gods?

Scientists very rare think about consequences of their discoveries.

Originally Posted by jamison20000e Both believers and non let people kill each other, because we let parents teach their children!

We let? Who we? Essentially no parents are asking for permission to teach children what they want. Sometimes it goes up to explicitly reject school teaching, oppose. Someone creates these school teaching programs. Someone accepts. If these "someones" are biased - it is not teaching at all. It is indoctrination. I can trust math, physics, chemistry teacher. But things are more and more complicated when it is about history, ethics - I mean human sciences.

A 2 year-old may get mad or upset if we try stopping them from doing something shouldn't... they do this because as a 1 year-old their parents taught them human 1.0...

Babies could easily grow imagination nough, knowing they could be every religion ever created thus none whould be correct?!.

But, we whine and wine because we're taught to.

If you're taught to be hardcore superstitious you just are, unless you can still learn?

Maybe electrical shocks...