The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Originally Posted by Fixit7 Examples of those who did not believe in sin are [...] ISIS [...]

Huh? How do you figure that??

It is a Social Imperative if you value friends and family, let alone Civilization.

It is both, a psychological imperative in Man and indispensable tool to enforce acceptable social growth called civilization.

Do you think mankind is evolving into a loving people ?

I believe in the affirmative. Take for example the dawn of human history. It was a period of pre-enlightened rules, unlike today we have schools building up children to hasten development from natural animal behaviour toward morally acceptable citizens. It was a time Man was without social apparatus to enforce norms acceptable to progress. Yet... man learned to love his woman, and may often exhibit heroic deeds to vindicate this emotion and belief; natural parents learned to take care the child; and siblings help each other against stranger. The natural tendencies of Man is both: to love or to hate --either can be true with or without religion.

If you lie to a human(\or self), you are teaching them* to hate...

Originally Posted by Fixit7 You are missing or ignoring my point. What standard do you use to determine right from wrong?

The concept of sin implies that moral law is laid down by a divine lawgiver and it's associated with monotheistic religions. Sin is disobedience to divine command. But other religions have no such commands and it's perfectly possible to derive moral law by reason. Both Aristotle in Greece and Confucius in China use a naturalistic theory, Virtue Ethics.

If we call a person or an action "good", then there must be some common element with the sense of "good" in "good food", "good idea", "good book". Something is good if it functions in a way which is appropriate: the good idea solves a problem, the good book informs or entertains.

A good person functions as a human being ought to: as a rational member of society. The bad person cannot flourish. The most successful of criminals has to live a life of concealment, only being open with fellow criminals — who, being criminals, cannot be entirely reliable friends! A Hitler lives a life constantly threatened by the enemies, both at home and abroad, created by his own actions.

That is a very crude sketch, but it shows that we can have morality without divine commands, without the concept of sin.

I personally think that the concept of "sin" is one of the worst, and yet certainly the most intrinsic, concept of the Christian religion. The religion is too-careful to point out that "you are utterly fscked," from the very moment of your birth as a human being.

And the "Divine Justice of 'God Is Love'" is ... "(dear God™) what exactly?" You got it: a never-ending bath in a lake of fire.

But for what? "Probably less than seventy years, certainly not much more than a century's worth," of screw-ups. By their official argument, after all, "it only takes one." Ostensibly, you could live a perfect life, then say "fsck!" with your dying breath, and wind up ... on fire. Forever.

Uh huh. I don't see any sense of "tit for tat" here. (Instead, I smell the Roman Empire.)

Well, the more I thought about that, the less it had a grip on me. But also, the less important(!) it became.

To my way of thinking, "your very-precious time here-and-now," has got(!) to be a whole lot more about "what you do, here-and-now, especially with regard to anyone else who is here-and-now with you," than about "making sure that your Celestial Fire-Insurance is Paid Up."

... and yet, a certain author and his cohorts made a ton o' money from their so-called Left Behind series of books, with their not-too-disguised gloating at the idea of "being a grand-stands spectator as the rest of the human Universe burns."

But, I digress.

When a certain Person could have thrown a stone, He didn't. When faced with a Pharisee who raised "being religious" to a science, He embraced the Publican. And(!), in the Judgment scene of the very Book that certain people seem to love the very most, He dispatched people who had(!) performed miracles in His name to that very same firepit. (So far as I know, "lil' ol' me" has never performed one single miracle ...)

Anyway: I feel really good when I'm schlepping metal containers of soup that weigh 40 pounds apiece. (Hint: wherever you may live, your local Food Bank, etc., are always desperate for volunteers...!) Handing out bedrolls and pointing out places on a [warm] concrete floor. And, if that one day winds me up in some firepit somewhere, I don't think that I would really want anything to do with that god's version of "heaven." (But, I have a gut-feeling that this is not the case.)

"Oops, I did it again.™" ... #undef soapbox

Many of the replies made me think this song may apply.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skFWsc_-i14

Have a great day to scholars, relativists, etc.

Greetings.

Hello Everyone, This week our Main Point is “A Good friend prays for others”. Our Bible Story this week comes from Acts 12:1-19. This story is a powerful testimony to the power of prayer for sure! Peter had been imprisoned by King Herod and was in chains and King Herod had every intention of killing Peter the next day. However, Peter’s friends who were believers began to pray hard. God heard the prayers of His people and sent an angel to the jail cell where Peter was being held. The angel woke Peter up and the chains fell off his wrists and Peter quietly escaped the prison and then the angel disappeared. Prayer works!! When he got to where his friends were praying, he knocked on the door and the one who answered the door got so excited to see him they she forgot to let him in. She went to tell the others that Peter was at the door and they did not believe her. They had prayed for this very thing but didn’t believe it when it actually happened. There are two things I know for sure about God. He is ABLE and He is FAITHFUL! That doesn’t mean that our prayers are always answered the way WE think they should be , but His ways are best and is His timing is perfect. Whether you realize it or not, I am always praying for each of you every week. Prayer does work! God has placed you in children’s ministry “For such a time as this”. I thank Him daily for blessing me with people who love children and love sharing the Gospel with them since those are both passions of mine. If there is ever a time that you need me to pray specifically for something for you please text , call , or email me your prayer request. I find great joy in praying for others and lifting them up!! Have a wonderful week and remember, Dennis and I are out this Sunday on vacation. Have a great week and God Bless!!!

"Two aesthetics exist: the passive aesthetic of mirrors and the active aesthetic of prisms"
- Jorge Luis Borges

Stephen Roberts: "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ual_traditions &C

Here's a fun quote from Soft Parade

Originally Posted by Jim_Morrison When I was back there in seminary school, There was a person there Who put forth the proposition, That you can petition the Lord with prayer Petition the lord with prayer, Petition the lord with prayer You cannot petition the lord with prayer!

Hi guys

These pastors believe that to "take up serpents" is a form of religious expression. In the King James Bible, Mark 16:18 says, "They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them." Coots and his followers believe that God calls upon them to handle venomous serpents and to drink other poisons. Even if they are bitten, they will refuse medical treatment because they believe that they are worthy of God's faith, and that their fate is in God's hands.

Following his arrest earlier in the year for possession of snakes, in October 2013 Coots had an article published in the Wall Street Journal calling for snake handling to be protected under the religious freedom provisions of the US Constitution.

It seems that the snakes were not exactly of the same opinion, and didn't recognize themselves in the arbitrary role some superstitious "pastors" tried to force them in, and "God" didn't actually care:

Snake-Handling Pentecostal Pastor Dies From Snake Bite
Jamie Coots

Originally Posted by Jamison "Two aesthetics exist: the passive aesthetic of mirrors and the active aesthetic of prisms" - Jorge Luis Borges

Borges! Great quote!

Originally Posted by Enorbet When I was back there in seminary school, There was a person there Who put forth the proposition, That you can petition the Lord with prayer Petition the lord with prayer, Petition the lord with prayer You cannot petition the lord with prayer!

Another excellent one. The old «gods as personal butlers» anthropocentric nonsense. I think Morrison got it right.

Originally Posted by jamison20000e "Two aesthetics exist: the passive aesthetic of mirrors and the active aesthetic of prisms" - Jorge Luis Borges Stephen Roberts: "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Attachment 23189 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ual_traditions &C

Jam what are they doing with that snake? Are they inside the church service? I notice crucifix behind the one with guitar.

Originally Posted by malekmustaq Jam what are they doing with that snake? Are they inside the church service? I notice crucifix behind the one with guitar.

Yes, that's the whole point of the story. These cultists handle snakes as part of the service as a demonstration of faith in (a certain interpretation of) God's word. As the story makes clear, the snakes are not freshly caught from the wild but are long-standing "pets" used to being handled. Consequently they seldom bite. But sometimes, someone is unlucky!

Hazel hit the snake on the nose, which is a bad idea even if you believed it's misbehaving.

That list of religions could be 1,000's of times larger if we could look past here and now but I digress...

Originally Posted by Fixit7 ... Have a great day to scholars, relativists, etc.

Think of something *I've put before: you could raise a kid completely sheltered from the world and teach them red is blue. Then release them to either find they were lied to or they may choose to believe the rest of the world is wrong but what if you'd shelter all kids from the "demons" of fiction turned to wine °<hiccup>0o° I mean truth?