The Faith & Religion mega Thread

War over an image or whatever? I mean jesus christ people!

Originally Posted by jamison20000e War over an image or whatever? I mean jesus chris people!

Funny you mentioned that cause in this article is image that might interest you. Text is ok too.

Two kinds of people can get good grades through school, smart people and tools1

Originally Posted by jamison20000e It is when there's no god!

Hi...

You might want to take a look at my blog entries. There's no way any of what I have experienced in my life since coming to Jesus Christ ten years ago would have happened if there was no God, I can assure you!

Regards...

While it might be useful when confronted with having to walk across a narrow beam spanning a chasm to pretend the beam is lying firmly on the ground to calm our natural fear and nervousness of the dangers of falling from great heights and thus to succeed, it is not logical to conclude the beam was actually on the ground just because you made it across. To conclude that the world around you and the events in your life occurred due to the existence of not only a Creator God, but a Meddling God who changes th3e world and events surrounding you assumes you have the same level of Knowing as God, himself. I'm glad you "made it across the chasm" and found something that works for you but to engage in the level of Faith you apparently have that justifies evangelism including the old Carrot and Whip seems a trifle Messianic to me.

So simple a baby can get this one:
I was taught therefore I am...

...now imagine being born anyone of trillions of people (the less you can more likely hanging in the shed? )

Originally Posted by enorbet While it might be useful when confronted with having to walk across a narrow beam spanning a chasm to pretend the beam is lying firmly on the ground to calm our natural fear and nervousness of the dangers of falling from great heights and thus to succeed, it is not logical to conclude the beam was actually on the ground just because you made it across. To conclude that the world around you and the events in your life occurred due to the existence of not only a Creator God, but a Meddling God who changes th3e world and events surrounding you assumes you have the same level of Knowing as God, himself. I'm glad you "made it across the chasm" and found something that works for you but to engage in the level of Faith you apparently have that justifies evangelism including the old Carrot and Whip seems a trifle Messianic to me.

So now you discuss with possibility of multiple gods - kinda what first 3 of 10 commandments does. At least some people have hope..

Originally Posted by jamison20000e Two kinds of people can get good grades through school, smart people and tools1

Was this for me? Funny but once again failed - i did not get good grades at school - just enough to get me out of it. Something in me screamed "there is something wrong with this.." when i was younger. Now i don't have that sense anymore but i do have memory of it. But what does this have to do with discussing God?

Originally Posted by jamison20000e So simple a baby can get this one: I was taught therefore I am... ...now imagine being born anyone of trillions of people (the less you can more likely hanging in the shed? )

Why you doing this? Someone pays you? You want to replace authority? Obsessed with teaching people what to believe? Something else? I thought you were after truth just like me but you dismiss everything religion related as myths and legends while there is possibility that there is some kind of workable material amount in that stuff. As said before even monkeys have their origin story so humans are not from them!
And more importantly! What is your endgame? What do you expect us to do? We are not sleepers or sheep or stupidos or whatever you wanna call us "who don't see truth like you do". We are aware system is messed up! But what do you offer? Recently watched TV and there was group Liber8 which fits your internet personality actually but they have one problem - they fight with consequences(effect) not causes while not providing any real solutions and alternatives for longterm! All they do is kill to get attention - what does that do? It is like killing drug users to fight drugs etc. It is pointless! Kinda lika attacking believers to kill religion - ok let's assume you win - then what? Anarchy?

P.S.Nothing personal. Just one of the days when emotions kick in..

P.P.S.Another good video about "Lies" and making people zombies but again in russian.

@ Arcane - I'm sorry I wasn't clearer but in no way was I discussing a multiplicity of Gods from mine or any one religion's point of view. It was about All... a compendium of current belief. I try to not have beliefs. There is simply what I know (with reasonable odds of certainty) and what I don't know, that which falls short.

What I was doing was walking through the steps one must if one is going to attempt to postulate the nature of God or to consider the many different faces of God described in the many religions humans have. Some believe in a creator who treats his creation, our Universe, as a wind up toy which he "builds, sets loose" and perhaps enjoys watching it's path unfold, while others apparently believe the toy is "on tracks" where every dip, incline and curve are all predetermined. It seems that most religions believe in a God that meddles, who can be petitioned by prayer for favor or mercy to essentially alter or tweak "The Plan" .

None of that makes any sense to me whatsoever. One of the arguments I have with myself is that I sincerely doubt my puny brain is capable of perceiving or understanding God. I suspect it takes one to know one, and I assuredly am not even remotely close.

Although it looks like you were asking jamison200e and not me about endgame, I would like to offer mine. I used an analogy of a narrow beam across a chasm that we must traverse and how many, probably including me, would find it helpful to imagine some fiction to trick our body's fear reactions to danger so that we could avoid the shaking nervousness that would make our fear come true and make us fail and fall. I would like, for me and for the human race, to reach a level of self-discipline where no fiction is needed, where we can assess any risks truthfully and choose without self-defeating fear. I consider that a very high level of Hope that such a goal is achievable.

When asked once how I slept.

I replied, "Like God through the holocaust."

The end game? Is truth. I know it's "scary" at first... nothingness... but, like a "spiritual" person (or any) who gets rid of all their possessions why not beliefs? It's not hard to understand however imposibal for many to do. In the end nothing\everything matters, too many billions and beliefs. "Anarchists" like "hackers" are all different some know true (evolving) "definitions" others ignore++.

If we tell a religious person killing will never work and an athiest the same, however, they still "believe" killing is a necessary "evil?"

Edit: kinda rushing to work now so sorry if spelling or incomplete thoughts

As for me, I'm certainly not going to say, "there is no God." But I'm also not going to say that "there is a Judaeo-Christian God."

I think that everyone's human experience is such that we realize that "there's a lot more going on out there than our five-or-six senses can tell us." We do hear "a still, small voice" sometimes, and a primal instinct ... we know not from where ... makes us sometimes say in recognition, "Abba!" I doubt that anyone can seriously deny ever having had that experience, sometime or multiple times in their lives. They can't explain it, and they can deny it, but, "there it is."

What I do not think, though, is that we can "name" this God, and proclaim to know his/her/its thoughts and motivations. In other words, we cannot humanize deities, even if we acknowledge their existence. (And, even if we don't.) This notion is explicitly expressed in the Christian Bible: "My thoughts are not your thoughts. My ways are not your ways." You can't get there from here. You can't get there at all.

When someone says things like have recently been said on this thread, "who the hell are we to rebuke them?" How do we know, better than they do? They're talking about their experiences, and we should presume they know what they're talking about. If someone has had a positive encounter with a deity, it's really between them and that deity.

Like I said, "there's a lot more going on out there." None of us "really knows it all," and none of us ever will, even though we are driven to never stop trying. We can amiably discuss the topic (for 353 pages now, so far ...), but we can't lay claim to it.

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs ...

+ +

Instinctively there are no "gods" or "beliefs."

If we don't have all the nfo who is more correct? Someone pigheadedly knowing most answers to be wrong! Or, ones that think we know it all like your gods?

Why on Earth (or anywhere else) would anyone care whether there is a god(s) or not? How, exactly, would that change anything, if there were/weren't a god/gods? This position is known as apatheisim which seems to be disliked by theists and atheists in equal measure. I can't get my head around why people think whether or not they exist is interesting or important. There is a god, so what? There isn't a god, so what?
jdk

Killing, controlling or taking in the name of?