The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Originally Posted by ShaanAli {...}everything around us has been designed for human being. This can not be possible without a superb designer.{...}

Yes it is - you live in world of proof + not everything around us are suited for our life + not everything is created by God. Infact if there were no humans who started learn how life works we would still be in stone age or similar without any progress. Btw why you use computers and internet if you claim humans are nothing and only God given stuff is worthy? That should be sin or regress. Minute you start using opposite side stuff you are contradicting your belief.

{...}build theories around, but none has answer when it comes to soul, life, death...{...}

Including believers.

Originally Posted by ShaanAli Well for some books Yes, and for some books No.

Based on what?

Originally Posted by ShaanAli This also happens in any language same word has multiple meanings depending on contexts. People interpret them as per their interest and use them to make or break.

The same divine inspiration that participated in writing the books could participate in their translation.

Originally Posted by ShaanAli But Divine holy books should not have any single conflict within itself. If human being write such books, ofcourse they will make mistakes. For the same reason in Quran Allah has challenged to write even single similar chapter, to prove this is not human written book..

You started off talking about conflict, and then wandered off into uniqueness, these are not connected themes. But I'm glad we agree that humans wrote these books, because they do contain these kinds of mistakes.

I promise you that if you were challenged to write even one similar chapter to the Harry Potter series, we could all criticize it endlessly to show how it's not similar. Is this evidence that Harry Potter is the result of divine inspiration?

Originally Posted by acid_kewpie That sounds reasonable, but you can't say a religion is undermine by its lack of validation of its rules. If its true it's true... Indeed with scenarios when God spoke down from upon high etc... those supposedly taking down these orders aren't given reasons to pass on.

The good thing about validation is that the grounds for validation can be challenged. For example, if you say, "Don't eat shellfish because you'll get sick," then you can start to investigate what it is about shellfish that makes people sick, develop a strategy that counters the problem, and then make the rule go away... we can now eat shellfish, because we won't get sick.

If you say, "Don't eat shellfish because you'll go to Hell," there's absolutely no way to know whether there's any truth to that claim or not.

There's a reason why I selected this example... shellfish are not Kosher, and the Torah is very explicit on what God says you can and cannot eat, yet billions of people who follow religions based on the Torah ignore these rules entirely.

Why these rules in the first place? Well, some of these exclusions are mighty curious. Shellfish and pork are notoriously packed with pathogens, so they must be handled with care and high standards of kitchen hygiene to prevent cross-contamination, and must be cooked thoroughly. How often does this happen over an open fire, in a culture with no knowledge (and a deep suspicion of) personal hygiene?

I never understood rabbits, though... until I learned about a sickness known as "rabbit starvation," which happens when you eat a lot of very lean meats (like rabbit) without getting fats from other sources.

So... here's an ancient people with a poor understanding of biology, who notice that people get sick when eating oysters, rabbits, and pigs, but not when eating oxen or chickens. The only explanation they could think of: Don't eat it, or God will smite you.

Originally Posted by TobiSGD Christianity has absolutely no problems with alcohol, so you are wrong here.

Please check out these verses in Bible:

1. "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging; and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. [Proverbs 20:1]
2. "And be not drunk with wine." [Ephesians 5:18]

Article 2
A Layman’s Reflections

So many people speak for and against Christ, some ignorantly, and some with much wisdom. Quite often he is spoken of as “a rock,” and again, “the rock.”

A rock can do a number of things—it can totally crush a thing like pottery or pride; it can cause those to stumble who are in darkness, blind or careless; or it can serve as a very firm foundation. (Psalm 118:22; Matthew 21:42-44; Mark 12:10; Luke 20:17, 18; Acts 4:11; Romans 9:32; 1 Peter 2:4-8)

Christ, the rock, has the precise effects on precisely the same schools of thinkers as during the early church. Groups of intellectuals dismiss this rock as clumsy & foolish, the Jews as powerless and absurd. Plans and ambitions of powers that be are foiled and crushed by this rock. And yet the few faithful ones make this rock their sure foundation.

Why do people continue in rebellion, darkness or carelessness? The human dilemma is that folks prefer freedom from God over freedom from sin (Psalms 2:3). As for me, I’ll choose this rock as my very dear friend and refuge.

“I am placing a cornerstone in Jerusalem, chosen for great honor, and anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced. Yes, you who trust him recognize the honor God has given him. But for those who reject him, ‘The stone that the builders rejected has now become the cornerstone.’”—1 Peter 2:6, 7

Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
illegal relationships..... nudity.... alcohol..... i dont think any religion allows them!! So if you follow your religion sincerely, you have to give up these...

Originally Posted by sycamorex Totally irrelevant, you don't need religion to refrain from those things.

Agree, but without religion you have no compulsion. You may refrain or you may not. But if you follow any religion truly, its mandatory you refrain.

Originally Posted by ShaanAli For the same reason in Quran Allah has challenged to write even single similar chapter, to prove this is not human written book..

Okay! Heard it 3 times now. Similar in what context, mind throwing some light for me?

Originally Posted by ShaanAli Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post illegal relationships..... nudity.... alcohol..... i dont think any religion allows them!! So if you follow your religion sincerely, you have to give up these... Agree, but without religion you have no compulsion. You may refrain or you may not. But if you follow any religion truly, its mandatory you refrain.

Is this a good thing??? I'd rather people did the right thing because they felt it was the right thing to do, not because a book or a man in a dress with a very long beard told them to. It's like they are able to free themselves of morals BECAUSE their behaviour is mandated. There would probably be a fair few "God hates fags" banners out there if people didn't feel they were compelled to think that rather than make their own minds up.

Originally Posted by ShaanAli Agree, but without religion you have no compulsion. You may refrain or you may not. But if you follow any religion truly, its mandatory you refrain.

So you need religion in order to tell you what "not to do"? That's a very weak argument. You should use your own brain to understand WHY you shouldn't do something.

Originally Posted by sycamorex You are free if you don't do bad things because you find them immoral/wrong, etc. Not because someone (god) tells you not to do it. In this respect, I like atheists' morality - when they do good things, they do it of their own choice, not for fear of god's punishment (that's not morality at all). When they do bad things, it's also their choice. They don't find excuses that satan made them weak (or something like that.)

We are solely responsible for all our good and bad deeds. We know whats right whats wrong. If we do wrong, we shouldn't blame Satan. If anything is gray, always better to avoid.

We dont do bad either fear of GOD or our heart dont allow, in end we are away from bad. See the end result. If the rules are not written in books, people will have chance to argue for not accepting.

Originally Posted by ShaanAli Please check out these verses in Bible: 1. "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging; and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. [Proverbs 20:1] 2. "And be not drunk with wine." [Ephesians 5:18]

I can't be bothered finding the chapters & verses, but Jesus changing the water to wine at the wedding. If he'd disapproved he would have changed the wine into water, surely?
And doesn't Paul recommend taking a little wine?

Originally Posted by ShaanAli If anything is gray, always better to avoid.

So if everything is gray, then the only choice to do nothing? Great.

Originally Posted by ShaanAli If the rules are not written in books, people will have chance to argue for not accepting.

Laws (state/country/international) are written in books. There are people that break the laws. Conclusion: books are not that important.

Originally Posted by ShaanAli We dont do bad either fear of GOD or our heart dont allow, in end we are away from bad. See the end result. If the rules are not written in books, people will have chance to argue for not accepting.

If you really believe this is effective, you should try using the "Because I said so" argument with a small child some time, and see how that works out. It's even less successful for adults.

Where in the Koran does it say that people who commit suicide and mass murder are guaranteed a place in Paradise?
Where in the Koran does it say that women who are raped should be flogged?
What kind of god writes a book that condones or encourages that sort of atrocity?

Originally Posted by brianL Where in the Koran does it say that people who commit suicide and mass murder are guaranteed a place in Paradise? Where in the Koran does it say that women who are raped should be flogged? What kind of god writes a book that condones or encourages that sort of atrocity?

Yet allah 'is most merciful, most compassionate...blah blah blah'

So I guess we see the extent of his 'compassion and mercy' huh?

No other institution but religion has given man the green light for most of the atrocities you see.

A woman gets raped? KILL!
Somebody doesn't believe in your imaginary friend? KILL!


...And so forth...