The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Originally Posted by dugan - Genital modification and mutilation These, however, don't happen outside of religious communities.

Deuteronomy 23:1 guards against one pretty good example of this that happens plenty.

I used to love quoting that as "impotent men go to hell" but that's not really what it seems to mean in most translations I've read. Eunuchs do go to hell though.

Originally Posted by littlejoe5 {...}You all seem to be experts on both "Science" and the "holy books".{...}

Then you missed point of discussion - common sence. Most people want to believe but are arguing about human-made-fantasy-stories about God.

{...}But I'll tell you of only one small experience in my own life that thoroughly convinced me at about the age of ten that God not only exists, but is intensely interested in me personally. I had a gift: a brand new bow{...}

Who says it came from God? Maybe you found it(i also have found some stuff) or maybe your friends or parents or other people just wanted give you nice surprise present. See miracle is needed for something to be from God not random luck event. We all had luck and unluck moments in life? So what? Does it proove anything like Aliens or God or other fantasy stuff like goblins exist? FFS use some common sence before jumping to conclusions that everything that happens to you is miracle. And btw - even if God did give you that "gift" it still prooves he is DIFFERENT from book text because it does NOTHING for rest of world! How come? Books say it is fair..also if you believe God gifted you it what about Aliens? They also could give you that bow if you think about it..

{...}What you say is akin to the statement: "Figures don't lie, but liars figure."

Yes yes..trolling style is fun - tried it out myself some years ago..too bad some people don't grow up from it..but there is now some website which can give laughs on how trolls think - Trollbrain.

Do you mean that gravity didn't work before it was discovered?

Discovery isn't the essence of a thing. Every law has it's author. Someone discovered the law many years after it was written.

(BTW, I love Newton's Law of Gravity! Quite enlightening. It was shot down though wasn't it?)

Originally Posted by acid_kewpie sycamorex, I think you're making some really interesting points, wish I could debate it as intelligently as you seem to be, but I'm far too ignorant of religions as a whole to stand a chance.

I hope you're being sarcastic here.

Originally Posted by acid_kewpie My last comment above was triggered by your comment about "yes, my religion limits my freedom, but it has other benefits and therefore I am comfortable with it". Does that really make sense to you? Why should benefits ever be allowed to enter into that persons mind in the first place if they are a genuine believer?

I don't know. I think that would be my position if I were a believer. Being a genuine believer doesn't (or shouldn't) stop you from seeing/admitting that religion imposes some additional rules on a believer. At the same time, believers claim that it gives them some comfort/answers, etc. In a way it makes sense to me. I'd still have a problem with the question whether what I believe is true or not. This is the main reason why I'm highly unlikely to start believing.

Why should benefits ever be allowed to enter into that persons mind in the first place if they are a genuine believer?

You lost me here.

Originally Posted by Arcane Who says it came from God?

My take on that would be "Who says it came from YOUR God?" there are loads of them that could have done it, each one as plausible as the next, so why yours??

Originally Posted by sycamorex I hope you're being sarcastic here.

everything is relative, and I really suck at this stuff

I don't know. I think that would be my position if I were a believer. Being a genuine believer doesn't (or shouldn't) stop you from seeing/admitting that religion imposes some additional rules on a believer. At the same time, believers claim that it gives them some comfort/answers, etc. In a way it makes sense to me. I'd still have a problem with the question whether what I believe is true or not. This is the main reason why I'm highly unlikely to start believing.

So the same for me, it'd benefit my life massively, i don't think that's even up for debate, but that should be a side effect, not a principle reason for following the religion.

You lost me here.

Well I mean why should they ever think about a trade off / balance between the good points and the bad points? It is was it is.. Take it or... take it.

Originally Posted by dugan Sure it does. There are lots of people who pierce, tattoo or surgically "enhance" their genitals, and not for religious reasons.

Well, the difference is that it's their own decision, which they make when they are at least teenagers.

Originally Posted by sycamorex Well, the difference is that it's their own decision, which they make when they are at least teenagers.

"Coerced" sterilization of countless Chinese men is their own decision? There is, AFAIK, not a shred of religious belief behind the one child per family program.

Originally Posted by acid_kewpie So the same for me, it'd benefit my life massively, i don't think that's even up for debate, but that should be a side effect, not a principle reason for following the religion.

I think Dawkins compared it to being intoxicated. When you have a couple of pints, usually your view on the world is more positive and optimistic, you see life in brighter colours (that's why some people become alcoholics) - BUT it doesn't make it true.

Originally Posted by acid_kewpie Well I mean why should they ever think about a trade off / balance between the good points and the bad points? It is was it is.. Take it or... take it.

Perhaps, you're right. It's better not to question sacred things

Originally Posted by acid_kewpie {...}there are loads of them{...}

Another example how fake that system is..sorry believers but when it comes to stuff like God not even you know truth despite you have books and stuff what it wants how it works not to mention if it exists in first place. Untill you will proove us otherwise without death(because you won't communicate afterwards with us) people with common sence will just live and die believing in something else..it is same like saying "Time travel exists!" Then where is person from future since would be logical to not come from past..? Or that people can communicate with dead or do miracle healing. Then why noone can do it? All of them are liars who do hot&cold reading - so called "true miracle" doer like crystal ball lady or guy who can call your dead friend from grave to speak to you just do mind-trick magic. There is show "Magic's biggest secrets finally revelead" - you will be amazed what you saw was miracle was actually lies..

Originally Posted by acid_kewpie "Coerced" sterilization of countless Chinese men is their own decision? There is, AFAIK, not a shred of religious belief behind the one child per family program.

Ok, didn't think about them.

Originally Posted by bluegospel It was shot down though wasn't it?)

It's been superceded by Einstein's theory, but it's still used when it produces accurate results.

It's been superceded by Einstein's theory, but it's still used when it produces accurate results.

Did you consider this?:

Food for thought: fundamentally, isn't everything a satellite, or a member of a satellite? From the electron, to the subatomic particles, to the atom itself, and to the galaxies? The sun might be thought of as an atomic bond.

I met Dawkins at Birmingham international railway station about 5 weeks ago. 3 days before the Rapture and all I could think to say was "good afternoon ". True story.

Originally Posted by bluegospel Did you consider this?:

No offence, but of course not.