i installed windows 2000 yesterday. it took 8 restarts to get it working. all this in 3-4 hours.

Let's see if I can say this without pissing off too many people. If Linux does not mature into a truly user friendly desktop system YES Longhorn is going to come out on top. I read lots of posts and threads here about how Microsoft is taking open source ideas and using them. I think that's great-(hopfuly) for a better system. Why can't the Linux community do the same use some of the things that are good in Windows for a better system. I read how everyone can program and compile to make Linux into what they want....When most home users just want things to work. I read here how if I want things to go as easy as they do in Windows I must be crazy, lazy,or just plain stupid. I don't want to DUMB down Linux,should be a way to give you a choice as how,what ,and when something is installed. Yeah, I know about root in Linux v admin in Windows. Can I learn Linux? Yeah, I learned Windows But the learning curve is not as wide as Linux. I think Linux is the better of the two, but you try calling SuSE after 5o or on the weekends. (lol) I can get Microsoft or MSN 7 days aweek 24 hrs aday. The Idea of open source and free software is great. But when was the last time you got a free car or a free hamburger. I want someone at work,being paid to put this together so it's compatable and works. I read in lots of threads how people that think like me just want someone to hold their hand because we must be brain dead. No we just want to PLUNG-N-PLAY. I have SuSe 9.1 Pro on 1 H-D and XP on another H-D. I don't have a problem with XP crashing. (get ram) Yes I do have to run adware,spybot,and virus protection. Just give us a more multimedia,user friendly system with Linux and people will come in droves. This is NOT a attack on Linux as a system, I think there are lots of ways to improve it is all. Never worked with Dos,or any programming before. So don't burn me too bad! (64 bit machine in a 32 bit world)

philipbrown9: the problem with "user friend" like you seem to want (graphics only), is that linux is a kernel, and in no way supports graphical programs (this is the responsibility of the X server)

that basic tools on linux are mostly gnu software, they made a copy of the unix tools (and added some of there own stuff) .. so they are both powerful and useful (in cases like sed, perhaps to powerful gotta read the man pages whenever i use it)

the X server is also NOT responsible for user friendliness (altho for xfree/xorg the compiling is a pain in the neck if you are doing it by hand .....), the X server is responsible for connecting a keyboard(s), pointer(s), screen(s) (or any other output device), and a video card(s) , so programs don't have to do that by themselves, it is also meant to have little polices (just the inter process communication, and a few other standards from freedesktop.org) .. so don't blame it for user unfriendliness (altho with that distasteful xt toolkit, i can see why people would blame it ......)

it is the responsibility of program on the X server for how "user friendly" they are .. each desktop environment is responsible for this .. each program has its own interface, and can look the way its wants to, and doesn't have to take crap from users ... besides you say you want things "easier" , i say they are already easy, apparently there are different easinesses for different people, so explain what you don't like, complain (give feedback) to the makers of its program, and also the desktop environment's team to see if they can make things easier on you (and no doubt others as well)

besides .. if you by a car, do you think you should have to take care of it? wear a seatbelt? give it gas? oil changes? .. or do you want it to get its own gas, do its own maintenance, put the seatbelt on for you, let you sit back and just say " someplace, somewhere, on earth" and have it drive you there while you sleep? and have it obey traffic law? ......

a computer is a tool, don't expect it to do its own work, in fact you are lucky OS's even exist, imagine having type in hex programs by hand every time you want to play a game (or basic programs on those older computers)

and i really don't see how people classify windows as an "user friendly" system, a system that crashes in my opinion as often as it does, require to much maintenance and my time, are not user friendly (thus why i hate gnome) .. if you want things like windows, then just take a sledgehammer to your computer and you'll receive the same user friendliness in just a few swings!

ScYro, Let's see I'm sitting here with a nice 3d nvida card that's running in 2d because the drivers aren't downloaded yet. I go to Nvidia home page for the drivers, there it has a read me,telling me to use Yast,and gives instrustions on how to do this. Well guess what drivers are not on the list. Go to the SuSe update portal, guess what not there either. I know download and install manualy. But I don't think that this would happen with Longhorn. Play a DVD on my SuSe not yet, because of blah blah reasons SuSe can't offer you this out of the box. Got to uninstall a few things and get a differant version of player. So all I'm saying is before a Linux decktop system for the average user can compete the developers wave to provide a multimedia ready, hardware compatable system. There's a whole wide world of wonderful programs out there ready to go on this hot 64 bit machine. I now must learn to use this system to get the benefit of these programs. But I WILL learn! Had to learn Windows But I bet when Longhorn arrives there will be a lot of 64 bit programs ready for it. The developers of any flavor of Linux has to refine the GUI and their support system before they start charging half as much as Microsoft for a system. I know RTFM I'm not upset this is just a hurdle that i must overcome. Looking around for a tudor or some classes just so I can see a few things before I jump in with both feet. And this forum has helped alot. The more I read the more I learn. But the meat of the thread was about microsoft and Longhorn. It's going to be a hard act to follow with the average desktop user.

yea, the rpm system is drag eh?

i know gentoo's portage system is wonderful, and from what i hear of rpm's., portage is way better

anyways, the hardware compatibility are the hardware makers fault, hardware makers don't like to release specs so people can build drivers for them, thus the manufacturer is responsible for getting the divers out, linux is a just a scratch compared to windows, so the manufactures spend less time trying to ass linux support as they have windows support

and i don't see why everyone thinks windows is the best OS for user friendliness and support

windows support sucks, you have to pay for it, the gui sucks, the desktop is a lame and recycled attempt at m$'s Internet browser (they ended up just buying IE from someone else and the browser they were working on that sucked became the bases of the desktop), the system sucks, and most of all it pisses me off (like gnome does .. i want things my way ..)

the only reason why windows has better multimedia support is because it has a monopoly, hardware manufactures HAVE to develop for windows compatibility just to stay in business, software makers develop for windows because they can charge unlawful prices for there products

anyways, if you prefer a system that works without needed to do crap, get a mac (cause everyone knows in windows you have to buy extra software .. then fix things overly often), if you want a monopolistic OS that was just a shell for a crappy command line, that was a crappy OS to begin with, and thus the entire OS is just one big ugly hack of qdos (quick and dirty OS .. not exactly quick anymore ..)

linux is more geared toward the power users

but i would agree that the help system in linux needs help (well a gui based system) .. right now theres no way to access man/info pages in a GUI program without installing a desktop environment (and even them, gnomes yelp is just confusing and incredibly sucky) .. plus the "info" command sucks a bit, if it acted More like "man" it would be better (when i ask it to search i feel its better that it errors out like man, instead of throwing some stupid page at me when it cant find jack)

Believe me SciYro you are preaching to the choir. I want to be able to use all these powerful programs. I have looked into Mac G5 , in a year or so I hope to be able to buy a prosumer grade digital recording camera to make DVD's of school graduations, bands, beauty pageants,etc. to sell to parents, grandparents ,and so on But you have to admit most of microsoft is plug N play. All I'm saying is that the distributors need to somehow polish and make it a bit easier for anyone to open the box and get started. Open source is the foundation of Linux,people write a program that's useful to them then someone improves on that.

Philip, in case you're still stuck to 2D:
1. just download the drivers from the Nvidia page (you
should end up with a file *.sh)
2. Via YaST, install the kernel sources (no you're not bothered
with compiling the kernel, all this stuff is done automatically
by the NVidia installer)
3. Go to a shell (Alt+Ctrl+F[1-6]), enter init 3
4. Call the .sh from Nvidia, follow screen instructions (you're
required to press "yes" button 2 or 3 times)
5. Start sax2 and set your card (I think this can be done within
YaST, too). Depending on your card you may be required to
do a little "trial and error" (before saving, there is a test button.
If it doesn't come up with a graphical display, you set the
wrong card)

You don't need YaST to install the drivers themselves (because
NVidia doesn't deliver them in rpm form since SuSE 8.2 or some-
thing anymore)

HTH

you guys can rant all you want but it won't help the community and, you, in general...why won't you, guys, just channel all that hatred, disgust and whatever foul word you can think of into one massive ball of energy that would benefit the community...try tinkering, finding solutions and making the open source software, that we all love, better than any proprietary software that thinks it's better when it's not...to hell with losers...

I think that ms will never kick linux out of the market, there is too much people that is using linux only for one reason, for fun.

How many times one of us have got a terrible headache because something was not working right and still keep trying while knowing that windows would do it?

Marius2, Thanks for the help, I'm still trying to understand all your directions. lol I just have to abit more. Yes mkaman, this is giving me a headache. mhykgyver, what hatred and ranting are you talking about

I just wasted 15 minutes reading this thread when I should have been writing my tech collum and writing some school paper thing....LOL.

Anyways...I realy don't like windows all that much...why thou? More over because I got bored of it....it was too simple for me :P I swithed to Slackware for a challenge and somethign that I can learn that isent'a all GUI based. Of course...I have a large craving for eye candy so I kind of got rid of my beloved black screen with the blinking curser (now replaced with the allmighty Rxvt that is transparent!)...

Anyways, I still use windows....i'm using it righ tnow acutaly (Well...I would be using linux right now if I wern't having a couple problems with cups and my printer....but unfortunatley I have some thigns that I need to type and don't have time to troubleshoot today...LOL.). Dont' start a war! yeah...windows isen't that great....linux isen't for the peopel who don't even know how to change their desktop background in windows....

Ack...so what if windows dominates Linux somehow anyways. I'll never have my site hosted on a windows server and I'll always use both linux and windows. Linux won't die...it's open source....as long as it's fans keep persueing it, it will stay no matter how good windows gets.

Oh well...i don't have much opinion on this anymore. I realy like Linux....so what about windows? I am using an OS that I like...i'm happy...dose it matter if windows is sitting in the back of me?

Anyways...back to work...

Oh yeah...to tell you the truth...on windows...I can't see a speed startup differnce between Firefox and IE....maybe if i had a slower computer I woudl notice IE starting faster....but oh well....

OMG, I am so sick of reading posts about people saying Linux is too hard. If anyone here finds Linspire hard....seriously, get some more education...you'll need it. Fucking retards.

Oh, I know why its too hard.....cause all these retards think the developers are going to hold their little hands after they download the software for free....if you don't want to learn....then buy Linspire/Xandros and quit bitching about how hard Linux is. They are specificially designed for people like you.

ick...Linspire/Xandros...not a linux distro disquised as a easy to use windows....cries...WHAT HAS THIS WORLD COME TO...

Things are better when they are more difficult to understand <.< Otherwise it is way too boring...

Everyone shoudl just go download Slackware and learn something by experince instead of using all these prety GUI's and "Wizzards"...

I'll admit thou...you arn't goign to find a resource that has it all...or a good one that has it all alteast...but lookign thigns up is all the fun and you usally learn something in the process...

This thread realy hsould be locked thou...it is getting kind of ranty and pointless....

I wonder if Ranty is acutaly a word....

Seems there is