What is a "proper" installation of Linux?

I know some people don't like command line interfaces, but it is not as difficult as people believe. The CLI is what gives linux/unixes its uniqueness. What if one day, your x server didn't load or your network settings got messed up. With the CLI, you just fire up your favorite text editor and open the configuration files and fix the problem. GUI's are fine, but it sure helps to know how to do the task from the command line as well if your xserver is not working.

i can only say that x still needs cli to run for a very long time ...

[EDIT ::]
>> "What is a "proper" installation of Linux?

a kind of linux that without a desktop ...


maybe what i meant was encouraging people to do all the settings that make a system runs right for a long time is convenient ... probably ...


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I don't understand anything you're saying. Nowadays, most people install Linux using a distribution. Most distributions result in an installation where a typical desktop user never sees a command line. By your rationale, this means none of the desktop installations are "proper". If you don't have a desktop, then what you're focusing on is likely to be a server of some sort. Most people don't directly use servers; they use desktops/laptops. Where are you going with this?

Who, pray tell, will actually _want_ to do this? Most people don't have the knowledge of what configuration files to edit in order to fix the problem. I'll also claim that most people don't want to do this, which is why they ran some sort of GUI in the first place. It's nice that having the CLI as option is there if needed, but that's hardly a compelling reason by itself.

One of the best things about Linux IMO is that when the GUI crashes/dies for whatever reason the system isnt hosed. It can all be fixed from the command line. Trying to do the same for M$ Windows is a different story...you might as well reinstall. I dont really get why people are bashing Bash, just use an Ubuntu derived distribution and dont ever bother using the command line that you despise so much. The rest of us can appreciate its power.

they can still choose not to install a desktop for their linux installations ...

>> "It's nice that having the CLI as option is there if needed, but that's hardly a compelling reason by itself."

probably we are also pampering the developers and distributors of linux distros too much ... ^_^



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My point wasn't that having the CLI available as option is bad, it's that most people won't be able to take advantage of it in the first place. Given that, a CLI option by itself isn't a compelling enough to reason to extol Linux's virtues.

Not all linux users are the same. Some of us like the inner workings of linux and some don't care how linux works. True, linux has hundreds of configurations files in the /etc folder, but you don't need to know everyone of them, only a few important ones. Knowing some of these files can save you from reinstalling the OS to fix a minor problem that could be fix by modifying a file.

I think we're beating a dead horse here. I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, but I think the point I've been making has been missed.

It gets really annoying when installing something simple takes forever. I am not talking about installing Oracle database.

Currently, I am trying to install:

1. vmware (took me 2 days)
2. vnc (2 days, then gave up)
3. JRE (2 days, still fighting)
4. PCanywhere (3 days, gave up)

If anybody can help me on there, I would very grateful.

In Windows, a total new person can install all of them within the hour provided s/he knows how to read instructions.

No-one can help you without knowing the specific problems, error messages, etc. Unless the issues are related, each of those problems should be in it's own thread. If you have already posted the issue, then follow up in that thread.

In Linux, many things are easier than in Windows---some are harder. For the ones that are harder, it's often because the user has developed a "Windows brain".
Life is a series of tradeoffs--only you can decide how you want to spend your time.

Also please don't tack your problems onto this thread. Please create separate threads per topic in the right forum (Linux Software in your case). [edit]Uh. I see the VNC one is already here just in case anyone is interested in helping out[/edit]

TheStupid,

Like others have said, it sounds like you're stuck in the Windows mode. Once you've started playing with Linux more, and emerse yourself in it, you'll get the feel. You'll also feel much more in control of your computer that you do with Windows. The difference is really amazing.
Keep up your efforts, and you'll see what we're talking about.

This is a very subjective statement. A totally new user will likely have no idea what they are doing. For instance, I am the Windows admin at my office. I've been working with Windows for years. I've only been actively working in Linux for around a year (I think). It takes me about the same amount of time to install either Windows or Linux. Due to to availability of software through the Linux package managers, I can install EXACTLY the software I want on my Linux box much faster than I can get the same type of BLOATED software on my Windows box.

Regarding your specific issues:
I still don't think we know what distro you're using. That, along with your errors, will go far in assisting you.

For my experiences:
VMWare - I'm using Fedora 7. In F7, a manual VMWare compile will not work nicely until you get the vmware-any-any package. You also need to recompile each time your kernel is updated.
VNC - Installs easily with your package manager. Included with all distros I've used.

The way I look at things like this, by now, is pretty darned "just go with the flow."

First of all, if you are doing something that is best done in Windows (for you, and for whatever reason), by all means, use Windows! "Tool for the job," you know, and if someone else could wave his magic-wand and "make things happen the same|better" in Linux, so what? You're you, and the objective is to get the work done. Find the most expedient way for you to do that, then do it, then move on.

For the most part, Linux distros and "the Windows distro" have converged on the same point: easy things are easy, i.e. for the stock desktop situation and the usual grandmother, and once you start wandering off the well-worn path you're going to be doing quite a bit of "finding your own way." And furthermore, you're going to be using that command-line interface! Yes, Virginia, Windows also has a CLI.

What Linux does not have, and trust me, you'll be grateful someday, is "a Registry."