Of which you are a willing participant might I add.

That's very true, but if you can't do "computing" on it it's not a computer in the practical sense and thus largely irrelevant to the debate. Phones have been brought up in the sense that the hand held computer and the phone have become one and the same (not to mention the phone, credit/debit card, etc) and have apparently overtaken the [desktop] PC - potentially leading to it's "death".

That's the point I'm making. The PC market may have grown, without someone presenting meaningful data, who knows. It may have dipped as smartphones became the norm, but it could still have grown and may still be growing. One point I've brought up previously is that more and more businesses "went digital" since the mid to late 90's, that has grown and will quite predictably continue grow (as infrastructure is upgraded, etc).

While that's a good point, "self builds" are really a very small part of the desktop PC market. In my workplace they are replacing whole boxes because of Windows 7 EoL. To me that's madness and the hardware should be left to run until it dies and while it's still useful, but it's not my decision.

Cheap "entry level" PCs and laptops are more available than ever before. It's also why hardware just gets replaced much more frequently as the items are treated as "throw away". I've known many who buy new hardware when reinstalling Windows would have resolved the problem.
The desktop (and in my opinion the laptop) PC are (or should) be a system where the end user has ownership of their data, they have choice - they even have choice to remove the installed OS and install something else. The also have the option to use cloud services if they wish.

Mobile devices based on Android do not afford this same choice. The devices cannot simply be wiped. You cannot just easily install some free phone OS. Google and it's influence/control over Linux, it's deal with the hardware OEMs has brought you the marriage of Linux kernel + it's own libc, userland, display server, with proprietary applications and vendor drivers tacked on. None of this has "given back" to "Linux" and it's why there is not this plethora of accessible "smartphone" Linux distributions as there is with x86 and some other architectures. with these devices, the "cloud" and local storage have very blurred lines - a user doesn't necessarily know (and often doesn't care) where their data is stored, now if they have retained or signed away ownership rights - as it's unlikely they've sat down and read through page after page of confusing legal gibberish. The cloud goes beyond willingly uploading files to "who knows where", it extends to modern day social media platforms and instant messaging tools. It is omnipresent and almost unavoidable for users of these devices.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market...ers_(1975-2018)

Well data of sorts...

One final warning, the constant back and forth personal squabbles will result in loss of General posting moving forward. I suggest multiple members in this thread utilize the ignore list functionality of LQ.

--jeremy

If I look at the whole of your argument, it really comes down to
- the cloud is bad
- all smartphone operating systems are bad
I fully agree there.

Interesting, also the previous table.

Is TV killing radio?
Are eBooks killing printed novels?
Is Internet killing newspapers?
No.
Are humans killing Earth?
Sure.
Enjoy!

You mean yes.

I think no, dugan.
I hope.
Greetings.

I've just been hearing about a possible paradigm shift that is gathering momentum because of an Open Source type business model in the form of RISC V. Besides offering corporations some independence and rapid adaptability, both important to the bottom line, it also offers a possibility of of thin client smartphone-like devices that by virtue of a docking device can be extended to include large displays, keyboard and mouse, effectively a convergence of phone, laptop and desktop PC. Frankly I hate the idea of subscription hardware but "know they enemy" right?

Here's one video on the subject.

Note: You may, like me, find this guys vocal inflections annoying, but the content is thought provoking and worth it.

https://youtu.be/67KW4t42SZk

then you'd be 1,000,000% WRONG.

The Cloud really just means that software is in the browser more than traditional desktop apps. This does not necessarily change things massively as there are lots of browsers and lots of platforms.

Ironically (perhaps), I was able to move from my Windows work PC to my Linux desktop thanks to the Cloud versions of Office. Outlook is great on the Web (better than the desktop client by now). All other apps are available. You can now work on mobile and any device, but the main point here is that Windows is no longer the corporate choice, it is the user's choice.

Actually if you watch the video regarding RISC 5 in my previous post, corporations have their eyes on evolving The Cloud to where both The Big Iron hardware and OpSys are on The Cloud which means thin client devices can run Mac apps on appropriate Mac systems, Windows on Windows, and Linux on Linux on whatever architecture is most efficient. This of course allows them to sell subscription services to Users who only require minimal power and system support in cheaper thin client devices which could also evolve into the Smartphone business model. A fairly simple dock would allow outboard display, keyboard and mice. I find this both exciting and quite disturbing.

We gave these USB C Dell docks at work and if if I plug my Android phone in, I can use the mouse and keyboard. It surprised me somewhat.

Just to be clear, I'm not disturbed by those docks... those are great advances IMHO. What disturbs me is a door opening to trend the reduction in power (and options) of User hardware where almost everything is remote and on a subscription basis. It seems to me that's potentially a whole new level of "Walled Garden".

There's surely a ton of businesses that may no longer be buying desktop PCs. Laptops on the other hand... I see far fewer desktop systems on people's desks in the workplace than in years past. Especially, companies that hire lots of contractors. Hand them a company-configured laptop and they can work anywhere in the open-workplace hellhole they've set up. BYONCH (Bring Your Own Noise Cancelling Headphones)

Personally, I'll still be buying desktop systems -- or, far more likely, running homebrew systems -- for the foreseeable future.

But the cloud is PCs, since corporations are apparently persons.
We cannot escape the PC scourge and will be forever chained to those blasted things. Ahhhhghhhhhhhhhh. I want to go bowling and see people...