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Old 07-27-2006, 05:42 PM   #1
Jeebizz
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Format wars


Well here in the states HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are out now, and I am curious to know if anyone owns one of the two formats or like me thinks that it is still early to adopt either format. It is Betamax vs. VHS all over again, in a manor of speaking, and when one format finally wins over the other, how will this also affect those who want to view HD-DVD or Blu-Ray content considering the DRM implimentations in each format in a Unix enviornment rather than the Windows or set-top boxes. Plus lets not forget since some movie studios have chose HD-DVD and others to support Blu-ray, and there are some that have chose to support both, do you think that an HD-DVD/Blu-ray combo will ever be produced?
 
Old 07-27-2006, 06:46 PM   #2
Chromezero
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I think the whole thing is silly. What's wrong with the current format?
 
Old 07-27-2006, 08:57 PM   #3
Jeebizz
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Good question, there is nothing wrong with the current format now, and current DVDs will stil be used for a while, however when the time comes to fully transition into HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, the question is which one, and of course both offer backwards compatibility with the current format.
 
Old 07-27-2006, 10:04 PM   #4
ErrorBound
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromezero
I think the whole thing is silly. What's wrong with the current format?
Nothing wrong with it, but with HD-DVD or Blu-ray comes (another) huge increase in capacity.
 
Old 07-28-2006, 06:47 AM   #5
slantoflight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromezero
I think the whole thing is silly. What's wrong with the current format?
Same thing some VHS users though to be sure. I'll tell you whats wrong with the current format or anything involving moving parts and a plastic disc.

First of all it scratches way too easy and cleaning solutions are time comsuming and boring.

It also breaks very easily as well.

Sometimes it skips and that ofcourse can completely ruin the movie experience.

Interactive menus are usually frivoulous and annoying. Atleast vhs tapes played automatically. And plus there are discs out there that can actually FORCE you to watch previews. FORCE you. No menu button, no fast forward, none of that. Terrible. In fact any format that has such a capacity for evil I think cannot be trusted. And you know it'll only get a worse. I forsee a dark future with super sharp clarity but with little hope or quality content.
 
Old 07-28-2006, 07:15 AM   #6
billymayday
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I'm with ErrorBound. Give me 50G on a disk over 8G anyday
 
Old 07-28-2006, 10:21 AM   #7
Jeebizz
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Quote:
Originally posted by slantoflight

Same thing some VHS users though to be sure. I'll tell you whats wrong with the current format or anything involving moving parts and a plastic disc.

First of all it scratches way too easy and cleaning solutions are time comsuming and boring.

It also breaks very easily as well.

Sometimes it skips and that ofcourse can completely ruin the movie experience.

Interactive menus are usually frivoulous and annoying. Atleast vhs tapes played automatically. And plus there are discs out there that can actually FORCE you to watch previews. FORCE you. No menu button, no fast forward, none of that. Terrible. In fact any format that has such a capacity for evil I think cannot be trusted. And you know it'll only get a worse. I forsee a dark future with super sharp clarity but with little hope or quality content.
Well maybe, but CDs/DVDs do not suffer from quality degredation, and if handled properly, then the issue of scratches won't be a problem because then they won't be scratched in the first place, and we're not talking about laserdiscs here where they do suffer from whats known as laser rot over time. About the skipping it might be the dvdplayer, make sure that the laser lens is kept clean, or it might be a cheaper brand, and the skipping is just when it switches over to the second layer, first gen dvd players have been known to have longer pauses, but that has been resolved now.

Tapes have previews too, but you can fast forward, you can do the same on DVDS. IF you can't go directly to the menu, you can still fast forward, and besides there are ways to circumvent PUO's on the disc (prohibited user operations), by finding a dvd player that ignores PUO files, (yes there are such players on the market, but you have to do your research), plus software players on the pc can automatically take you to the menu anyways, skipping previews, AND copyright warnings.

Anyways, DVDs are not evil, whats evil is what the MPAA has done to them, regional codes, and such, but thats a minor annoyance, and even with the new formats, whichever one may be, there will always be a way to circumvent the next generation regional codings, and menu restrictions.

Last edited by Jeebizz; 07-28-2006 at 10:24 AM.
 
Old 07-28-2006, 10:37 AM   #8
JunctaJuvant
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Regarding data storage: the first HVD drives are already being made, which IIRC make bluray et al look like floppy disks.
 
Old 07-28-2006, 10:57 AM   #9
Chromezero
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I agree that the current DVD format has it's flaws. However, my point is, what do I gain by switching to Blu-ray or HD-DVD? Will it be better picture or better sound? The average person that watches DVD's doesn't have a 50" Plasma TV with 8 speaker surround sound.
Quote:
I'll tell you whats wrong with the current format or anything involving moving parts and a plastic disc.
I think Slantoflight is on the right path here. If I'm going to change the format in which I listen/watch something, give me a real upgrade in technology, something more useful. Personally, I think I'll wait a few years to determine which one to buy. They'll either join forces or one will get the corner on the market basically phasing the other out, similar to the VHS/Beta war. Beta was a better format but lost anyway.
 
Old 07-28-2006, 06:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromezero
I agree that the current DVD format has it's flaws. However, my point is, what do I gain by switching to Blu-ray or HD-DVD? Will it be better picture or better sound?
Much more capacity! So you could have higher resolution picture AND sound, more features, previews, multiple movies per disc, etc.

Quote:
I think Slantoflight is on the right path here. If I'm going to change the format in which I listen/watch something, give me a real upgrade in technology, something more useful.
It's true that there probably are better ways of storing movies, (maybe flash memory cards?) but discs are requisitely cheap to manufacture. The marginal cost of pressing a disc is practically zero. Remember that one reason Beta lost was because VHS, although technically inferior, was cheaper.

Edit: I do agree though, that I don't think they will both survive.

Last edited by ErrorBound; 07-28-2006 at 06:12 PM.
 
Old 07-28-2006, 08:09 PM   #11
jtshaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromezero
I think the whole thing is silly. What's wrong with the current format?
Simple, a movies worth of 1080p video with high quality sound is way to big to fit on DVD disk. Long term HDTV will eventually become the norm and it makes sense for movies to to progress with it.

Last edited by jtshaw; 07-28-2006 at 08:10 PM.
 
Old 07-28-2006, 09:59 PM   #12
Mega Man X
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I think with the need we have to storage data today, that is a bit overkill. There's no doubt that we will eventually move on (or be forced to), but that is the natural way. Remember when games where distributed in multiple CD's? That was really, really annoying, especially when you were forced to swap disks during gameplay (XIII, Phantasmagoria, Final Fantasy for PSX...). Some games were distributed as multiple CD's used only during installation (Diablo 2, Doom 3, Neverwinter Nights...)

The DVD has addressed that issue beautifully. However, right today we are seeing movies and eventually games being distributed in multiple disks (Lord of the Rings, for example). This is very annoying indeed. However, they are still too few to bother. Just as there were few games distributed in multiple disk a few years ago.

Now now... this applies to movies and games (and other forms of media). For a user/company who needs to backup huge amount of data, that would be a good thing.

My two swedish crowns...

Last edited by Mega Man X; 07-28-2006 at 10:01 PM.
 
Old 07-29-2006, 01:16 AM   #13
atrus123
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Sony is betting a whole, hell of a lot on Blu-Ray, but from what I've read, it seems like they are alone in this one.

Many other companies, including Microsoft, are pushing the other format.

The only thing that I see making Blu-Ray a success will be a successful PS3, which is looking less and less likely as time goes on.

Let's not forget that Sony is also responsible for the failed Betamax. They don't have a good track record when it comes to establishing standards.

That said, I actually hope that Blu-Ray becomes the standard. It looks to be superior technology.
 
Old 07-30-2006, 11:58 AM   #14
sundialsvcs
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I speak literally: whatever format the Video iPod adopts will win.

But... that's quite likely going to be "no format at all."

In other words, what do we need these silly plastic disks for? We have the capacity .. more than enough capacity .. to transmit video-on-demand in real time. We can even download it over cellular radio circuits.

We have all the encryption and public-key infrastructure in place. You buy a subscription, you get a public key. Anything transmitted to you is encrypted with your key, and it stays that way when you store it. (If you're foolish enough to start distributing your copy far-and-wide, well, it's inextricably and provably got your name on it.) We have off-the-shelf, open source technology on hand right now that can do that easily.

Basically, both music and video are software, and software is fundamentally an intangible thing. Once the program is produced, most of the costs come from .. handling the physical things upon which a copy of it has been fixed. We put them in expensive plastic packages, put them on expensive store shelves where people have to get up and drive somewhere to (essentially at random) find a copy and rent or buy it, etc, and eventually we throw the thing away.

So... eliminate those costs. Eliminate all of them. Make it: "you want it, you pick it, you got it." A device, hooked to a network, with no moving parts at all (just a great big hunk of static RAM) and a recognized brand name. In other words: video iPod(R).

The cost-savings are so compelling that this change will be imposed upon the few who do not gratefully receive it.

Mark my words.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 07-30-2006 at 12:01 PM.
 
Old 06-19-2007, 10:49 PM   #15
Adriaan Nikken
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cds, memory

Someone had posted that cds don't scratch if handled properly. That is not true. Go into any pool hall and try playing "proud Mary" by CCR. The song will only play if brand new. The problem is the lazer etches small defects into certian parts of the CD the more that it gets played. USB cards, memory sticks, memory cards (what ever you feel like calling them) are likely to have much better life expectancy, since memory is so incredibly cheap, why not go for the formats that have super huge capacity to hold stuff as opposed to big and hard to lose.
I know i am new with linux, but I am not new with CDs.
 
  


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