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Old 02-08-2024, 04:12 PM   #16
hitest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelk View Post
FYI VP Mike Pence who also had classified material at his home residence was not charged.
Absolutely true. The difference between Biden/Pence and Trump is that when they realized they had classified documents their lawyers contacted the FBI and willingly, immediately turned over the documents. That was a clerical error.
Trump could have easily avoided his current legal catastrophe by turning over the documents when he was first asked. Instead he resisted the requests until he was raided by the FBI.
 
Old 02-08-2024, 05:21 PM   #17
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"For all of the classified materials recovered during this investigation, after the vice presidency, Mr. Biden did not receive a written waiver of the need-to-know requirement, and no agency official made the findings required by the executive order. Therefore, Mr. Biden's possession of those materials in unsecured spaces in his home after his vice presidency was unauthorized within the meaning of the Espionage Act.7 -16" https://www.justice.gov/storage/repo...ruary-2024.pdf
 
Old 02-08-2024, 05:33 PM   #18
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Maybe whataboutism but I don't think the materials found at VP Pence's home were authorized either. The fact that Congress can not keep track of their classified materials is a bit troubling.
 
Old 02-08-2024, 06:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjolnir View Post
All discourse is welcome. "...had discussed them with others with zero security clearance, and handed over one or some to someone not even a government official or even a US citizen.", it is alleged that Biden told a 'ghost' writer in 2017 that he had classified material.
DISCLOSING classified material MAY be a crime, depending upon the material and circumstance. Admitting that classified material EXISTS is not a crime.
 
Old 02-08-2024, 06:14 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjolnir View Post
Bidenís cognitive function is so poor he canít recall when he was VP, when his son Beau died, or Afghanistan...
I have seen doctored video and CLAIMS of evidence, but I have seen NO real evidence to support that conjecture. Do you have some new evidence that will stand examination?
 
Old 02-08-2024, 06:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjolnir View Post
"For all of the classified materials recovered during this investigation, after the vice presidency, Mr. Biden did not receive a written waiver of the need-to-know requirement, and no agency official made the findings required by the executive order. Therefore, Mr. Biden's possession of those materials in unsecured spaces in his home after his vice presidency was unauthorized within the meaning of the Espionage Act.7 -16" https://www.justice.gov/storage/repo...ruary-2024.pdf
See comment from hitest. (#16)
While a normal Federal employee might well be charged, members of Congress and senior administration officials operate under relaxed rules because they MUST deal with those documents on a daily basis. If they discover that they are in violation they are expected to respond by quickly fixing the problem, and if they do no charges are filed. CONTINUING the violation is what makes legal action appropriate.
 
Old 02-09-2024, 02:43 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by wpeckham View Post
I have seen doctored video and CLAIMS of evidence, but I have seen NO real evidence to support that conjecture. Do you have some new evidence that will stand examination?
I don't have evidence, these are direct quotes from the Special Prosecutor's report which is the reason I nested them in quotation marks. I encourage everyone to d/l the report and read it. I'm about 80 or so pages into it's 388 page length.
 
Old 02-09-2024, 04:16 AM   #23
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"Our investigation uncovered evidence that President Biden willfully retained and disclosed classified materials after his vice presidency when he was a private citizen. These materials included (1) marked classified documents about military and foreign policy in Afghanistan, and (2) notebooks containing Mr. Biden's handwritten entries about issues of national security and foreign policy implicating sensitive intelligence sources and methods. FBI agents recovered these materials from the garage, offices, and basement den in Mr. Biden's Wilmington, Delaware home." Page 5, Special Prosecutor's report.
 
Old 02-09-2024, 10:56 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitest View Post
Biden may have some cognitive decline, but, he's a rock star compared to his opponent. Trump is in steep cognitive decline and allegedly a criminal who has a good chance of being convicted on at least one of his 91 indictments. Trump just now admitted that Jan. 6th was an insurrection, but, that Nancy Pelosi led the attack on the capital.
Well of course she did! What sane person wouldn't torpedo their own party's win? (<sarc> - just in case anyone didn't get it)
 
Old 02-09-2024, 11:13 AM   #25
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Regarding cognitive decline, I think the impact of that varies greatly depending on the type of Presidency. Some Presidents appoint experts in their respective fields as their advisors and office heads, others seek "Yes Men". Both types exist in both Parties but it should be obvious which party tends to attract which type more often than not. The US in my view is far too expansive and diversified for one man to be adept at all areas, and of course there's that pesky side effect of danger to Democracy. The Checks and Balances resulting in a Balance of Power may be a bit "clunky" and slow, but that's likely a good thing. It certainly has shifted from Them Olden Days with the Lobby System and Supreme Court stacking, not to mention the shift of power between Senate and House.

If you bother to read "Capital in the 21st Century" it's quite evident that it didn't take Princeton grads to determine the US has become an actual Oligarchy. That's where the bulk of power resides.

Last edited by enorbet; 02-09-2024 at 11:14 AM.
 
Old 02-09-2024, 12:09 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjolnir View Post
I don't have evidence, these are direct quotes from the Special Prosecutor's report which is the reason I nested them in quotation marks. I encourage everyone to d/l the report and read it. I'm about 80 or so pages into it's 388 page length.
I saw several terribly unprofessional comments that I have never seen before in an official Justice department investigative report, but agree with the official conclusion that Biden did not commit any actionable violation. He committed no crime. He himself had not moved those documents, they were moved by his staff and NONE of them were security marked as confidential, secret, or top secret nor were they in security folders of any kind (so, no, you cannot reasonably accuse his staff either).

I am going to drop off this thread: I come here for Linux sanity not conservative nutcase insanity. There are other sites DEDICATED to that.

Last edited by wpeckham; 02-09-2024 at 12:25 PM.
 
Old 02-09-2024, 01:41 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by wpeckham View Post
...I am going to drop off this thread: I come here for Linux sanity not conservative nutcase insanity. There are other sites DEDICATED to that.
You can do what you want but I seriously doubt you, or any of us here, have the background and skills necessary to be critical of Federal prosecutors from a legal standpoint.
 
Old 02-09-2024, 01:52 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by wpeckham View Post
...and NONE of them were security marked as confidential, secret, or top secret nor were they in security folders of any kind (so, no, you cannot reasonably accuse his staff either).
This is only one of several classified documents mentioned in the report:
"Agents observed Sauber pick up the notebook and leaf through it. Sauber and the agents eventually found two documents with classification markings: (1) a threepage PowerPoint presentation marked as "Secret//NOFORN//Pre-decisional" dated May 22, 2013, relating to Afghanistan; and (2) a three-page memorandum labeled "TS/SCI"-shorthand for Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information-dated November 1, 2013, relating to Iraq. 62 The agents seized the documents with classification markings and secured the "1/6/12 #2 Foreign Policy" notebook in a locking classified-document courier bag"
 
Old 02-09-2024, 01:55 PM   #29
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"In Mr. Biden's garage, agents found several documents with classification markings dating from Mr. Biden's time in the Senate in the 1970s and 1980s."
 
Old 02-09-2024, 03:51 PM   #30
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Mjolnir, I don't think anyone is arguing that Biden had classified documents in his possession. Rational arguments note the difference that they were not in a public place, were not lied about, were handed over when requested, and none were given to a private individual, let alone one who is not even a US citizen. These ARE important differences and it seems to me that you are getting called out as "conservative nutcase insanity" because you appear to be, like many of the radical right, concerned with "owning those libs" instead of weighing the facts as they exist objectively.

If you are ultimately thinking that Trump is being treated unfairly compared to Biden, it seems to me you really must at least recognize the quantum leap difference in any supposed transgression or criminality. It simply exists when viewed objectively. Also, once again, the investigation into Biden's unlawful possession is not over yet and new evidence could easily reverse the ruling BUT it will still be rightfully noted that he complied willingly and quickly and did not lie nor plot to hide, move, or destroy them.

Far more importantly and to expand on "cognitive decline" there is considerable evidence that Trump is at least as deficient from age mentally forgetting while he was talking about the President in 2023 referring to him as "Obama" and that anyone would actually imagine Nancy Pelosi or anyone would try to stop an election her party won by any means let alone violent can only mean one of two things:

1) He is delusional
or
2)he actually thinks the people will buy any bullshit lie he flings no matter how crazy.

I don't take this lightly. I tried to give Trump the benefit of the doubt, to hope he would "shake things up" in a healthy way. It not only gives me no pleasure, it greatly disturbs me that even after getting an inside view of what it means to be President of the United States of America, he is even more narcissistic than ever, on a scale akin to Mussolini, than ever. That this man would publicly state that he would "only" act like a dictator for the first day, given his past record, do you really think he would ever give that up? He has been an ultimate "With me or agin' me" (and given his public statement regarding the proposed hanging of Pence, his remedy for those "agin' me" I have to ask how can any freedom loving person possibly believe anything this man says, let alone support him? Even if you minimize his transgressions, he IS a Loose cannon of the first order, and I truly fear for my Country and the fate of Democracy. I fear that this demagogue is still viewed by many, possibly even you, as a demigod instead. Whew! That's scary!

Again, this in no way should be seen as diminishing Biden's transgressions nor the need for his accountability as well. I am entirely sick of making voting choices for the lesser evil, but at least one of them even is lesser. Even if you aren't a rabid Trump supporter, surely you can see that for example a trial of a murderer is higher priority than a thief.
 
  


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