Because Shiny Things Are Fun - The New New Windows v Linux Thread

Just have two different "limited user" accounts, with passwords – one for you, one for your sister.

If you want to run Linux, buy or set-up a virtual machine monitor. Then, get an external hard-drive (USB or Firewire). Configure your Linux system(s) on that and run it virtual. Leave the [Windows] host altogether alone.

If both of you want to use Linux, either set up two VMs, and/or set up different (also "limited") user-accounts on the Linux side, one for you and one for her.

Originally Posted by Sumguy It's funny- we fall into habits and patterns, based on what we're used to- then we can think that anything different is a hardship, even when it really isn't. I've just started using Slackware, and the first thing I said to myself was "I've got to install an automatic/GUI login manager!"- but then I thought "Wait! What is so hard about typing in my pseudonym and password, and typing "startx"?! ". Now that I've been doing that for the last few days, I've come to the conclusion that I may not die, after all; and that it's not so bad, and keeps things simple....so I'm not lusting for an automatic login anymore. Re: Maples's sister: Sometimes, it can be good to give others a little "push" to expose them to something different, which they might not otherwise try. I could just see her reaction at first "Oh, this sucks! What is this, 1995?! N'oh the pain; the pain!"...but 3 days later, she probably won't care, and might even find Arch to be interesting and different, and "cool". I'm waiting for the day that my idiot sister comes over and wants to use the computer.... Me: "Oh, sure, just go in there and turn it on" [Hilarious laughter ensues as I watch her stare at a black screen with text and a command prompt] My sister: "Uh...I think your computer is broke[sic]...". Me: "Ah well...it's old..."

I'm hoping I get that type of reaction from her (not the one your sister had, the note about my sister)...I never minded the CLI login, and actually like it. Boots a lot faster.

One thing I thought of...WiFi. I doubt she will ever take it anywhere outside the house, but if she does, she will have to use Windows...I barely managed to figure out how to setup our home Wifi, and I know that you need root access to connect to a new WiFi...and she couldn't manage it through the CLI, anyway.

EDIT: I have LXDE for the desktop environment, and I think she likes it. If not, I can go to Google Images, find and install one she likes, and change her .xinitrc to start that one.

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs Just have two different "limited user" accounts, with passwords – one for you, one for your sister. If you want to run Linux, buy or set-up a virtual machine monitor. Then, get an external hard-drive (USB or Firewire). Configure your Linux system(s) on that and run it virtual. Leave the [Windows] host altogether alone. If both of you want to use Linux, either set up two VMs, and/or set up different (also "limited") user-accounts on the Linux side, one for you and one for her.

I run as admin on Windows...you're right, I probably should make a separate admin account for myself. And I already planned on making my sister a limited account, but thanks for making sure.
And even if I decided to trust her judgement for Arch, giving her sudo rights wouldn't mean a thing to her, because the only command she will ever want to usee will be "startx", and that shouldn't be run as root anyway.

I'm fine with a dual-boot...if my sister really complains, I can probably set Windows to be the top option and then set the timeout to 1-2 seconds.

Originally Posted by maples Nothing, I just prefer CLI login. I may look into installing one on that laptop, though.

I like CLI logins too. It's much faster and it's old school traditional unix type logins.

I often run Linux systems CLI only. Never liked X -- its clunky and screwy.
Really don't like no indication what so ever for the password on the CLI though because I often can't tell if a keystroke took or double typed.

Originally Posted by maples I'm hoping I get that type of reaction from her (not the one your sister had, the note about my sister)...I never minded the CLI login, and actually like it. Boots a lot faster. One thing I thought of...WiFi. I doubt she will ever take it anywhere outside the house, but if she does, she will have to use Windows...I barely managed to figure out how to setup our home Wifi, and I know that you need root access to connect to a new WiFi...and she couldn't manage it through the CLI, anyway. EDIT: I have LXDE for the desktop environment, and I think she likes it. If not, I can go to Google Images, find and install one she likes, and change her .xinitrc to start that one.

Wicd is easy enough to figure out, just install and make sure its running. You just click on it and a list of wifi networks comes up.

Originally Posted by smeezekitty I often run Linux systems CLI only. Never liked X -- its clunky and screwy. Really don't like no indication what so ever for the password on the CLI though because I often can't tell if a keystroke took or double typed.

My main use is LibreOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird so I set mine to default to GUI.

Originally Posted by maples I run as admin on Windows...you're right, I probably should make a separate admin account for myself. And I already planned on making my sister a limited account, but thanks for making sure. And even if I decided to trust her judgement for Arch, giving her sudo rights wouldn't mean a thing to her, because the only command she will ever want to usee will be "startx", and that shouldn't be run as root anyway. I'm fine with a dual-boot...if my sister really complains, I can probably set Windows to be the top option and then set the timeout to 1-2 seconds.

I didn't run as admin on Windows back when i ran it and still got compromised. As long as Internet Explorer is part of windows outside people have admin access anyway.

Originally Posted by smeezekitty I often run Linux systems CLI only. Never liked X -- its clunky and screwy. Really don't like no indication what so ever for the password on the CLI though because I often can't tell if a keystroke took or double typed.

I'd kinda like to get to that point, too, but... [and this may seem like a stupid newbish question- which it is ] there's essentially no way to do things like view images, without running X, right? I could handle just using something like MUTT for email....but I guess Youtube would be pretty much rendered worthless in a CLI browser...and GIMP might not work so well... ...or, are there other ways of somehow doing such things, that I just don't know about?

Originally Posted by enine I didn't run as admin on Windows back when i ran it and still got compromised. As long as Internet Explorer is part of windows outside people have admin access anyway.

And lets not forget the Orwellian evil that is Flash Player!

Originally Posted by TobiSGD ... Good way to make people not like Linux: CLI login, ...

I guess passwords are nightmares too?

Originally Posted by linuzfreak I like CLI logins too. It's much faster and it's old school traditional unix type logins.

Not to mention the best of both worlds you don't have to type startx if you don't need to like for Gimp and video, etc., I use Links2 for my email and often posting here.

Originally Posted by enine Wicd is easy enough to figure out, just install and make sure its running. You just click on it and a list of wifi networks comes up.

I might try that...now, I use netctl, and I've broken it a few times.....

Originally Posted by Sumguy I'd kinda like to get to that point, too, but... [and this may seem like a stupid newbish question- which it is ] there's essentially no way to do things like view images, without running X, right? I could handle just using something like MUTT for email....but I guess Youtube would be pretty much rendered worthless in a CLI browser...and GIMP might not work so well... ...or, are there other ways of somehow doing such things, that I just don't know about?

Well, for videos (if you have the actual file) mplayer does a surprisingly good job of rendering the video in ASCII. There's likely something similar for images.

Originally Posted by maples Well, for videos (if you have the actual file) mplayer does a surprisingly good job of rendering the video in ASCII. There's likely something similar for images.

I will have to try some video that way, thanks. For images can try:

fbi <filname>

but not sure?

Originally Posted by jamison20000e I guess passwords are nightmares too?

No. But making it intentionally harder for people used to Windows (and really, we have 2014, what is wrong with using a DM?) does shed neither a good light on Linux nor its users. If you want to convince people to switch to Linux the way to go should be to make the transition easier, not harder.

---------- Post added 7th May 2014 at 18:41 ----------

Originally Posted by linuzfreak I like CLI logins too. It's much faster and it's old school traditional unix type logins.

On my main system (Gentoo/OpenRC) booting to the CLI is about 2 seconds faster than booting to the SLiM display manager (12 seconds vs. 14 seconds), I wouldn't call that "much" faster, but that may of course be different on your distro/init system.
Since I almost always use X anyways (I am just more comfortable with having a graphical browser and using a tiling WM instead of screen/tmux) I don't see any advantage in booting to the CLI and then starting X manually.

It can be handy to have a "runlevel" that will boot without starting X ... and, usually, there is one defined already. You can therefore easily install a run-of-the-mill "distro" on a headless machine and avoid GUI-related overhead (and problems) without modifying anything other than the boot-time parameters.

One of the key things which Windows users have a lot of trouble wrapping their heads around is that Linux has a distributed, client/server GUI architecture which is entirely [u]optional/u] and for which there are a number of alternatives. In my opinion, the Windows UI architecture was never terribly well-designed ... it is totally monolithic, and so we have crap-solutions like "PCAnywhere" or even "Remote Desktop." Instead of the clean idea of a client/server interchange between a host computer (which might not even have a graphics card) and another. That key attribute of "X" is, in my humble, a game-changing architectural improvement.

Also, I actually miss the days when you executed the win command to enter a graphic environment and you could exit again from it, because there definitely are times when a graphic environment is both unnecessary and unwanted. Windows is very awkward, nigh on impossible, to run without one.