As an avid SUSE fan and user for many years, I have now grown concerned with the new SUSE 9.2 release and the possible License infringements (As I understand them) that Novell might be accuesd by...

First..I am all for "making any distribution look like what you want it to look like"...and for all your efforts to create a linux distribution and configuration, you should get reimbursed.

Second...I have no problem buying SUSE..but I have not yet purchased 9.2 because of my "evaluation"..

Issues: Downloaded 9.2 from...somewhere..some mirror..dunno..took 3 days...whatever...

Installed it...(Seems to be SUSE Professional 9.2 FTP edition).

And...installing it says "Great for developers"...guess what...not for Linux developers..that's for sure..

1) The distribution is delivered with GPL applications WITHOUT SOURCE CODE...(perhaps there is a "link to source code"...

2) The distribution is delivered WITHOUT DEVEL packages for MOST of the "key" RPM's in the distro..

Therefore, I can't do ANYTHING...I'm downloading/recompiling/and installing all packages (as required) to get my https server, openssl, SASL, mysql, php, etc...etc...that I need to "evaluate the usibility" of the distro...but..without the SUSE CONFIGURATION for these packages such as MySQL/Apache, PHP, SASL, FTP servers...NTP servers...etc...I CANNOT EVALUATE the distro!!!!!!

The biggest question is: Will I get ALL DEVEL packages and SOURCE rpm's if I purchase the 9.2 CD or 9.2 Download Edition with license?

And...is SUSE open to any lawsuites with regard to the distribution and lack of source...

I love Novell...been a user of novell since the old Novell netware 2.0 days.....but...
I think they are doing something wrong with SUSE...will SUSE follow UnixWare....and disappear one day? I would hate to see that.

What do you think....anyone?.....

No, and yes, if you buy it all that stuff comes with it, and if you don't buy it you can still d/l it. SuSE will be around for a long time, but will eventually change into something else.

The GPL states that the source code should be distributed with the package or made available via the net. If you take a look at the Suse ftp site, you will find that the source code is available from there.

Yes if you buy the boxed edition it comes with a DVD full of source code
Joe

The source code does not have to be delivered with the rest. It simply has to be made available on request. This means that they can either ship it with the cd/download or make it so you have to e-/snail-mail them or have it available on a website. No infringement here. In fact, they are doing you a favour - the download would be much larger if the source was included.

Thanks guys. Heard this before, and what I thought.

Linux is a "difficult" system to use (e.g...you must have TWO brain cells to use it...one brain cell just isn't good enough)...I just hope that folks don't find it "too difficult" because of what Novell left "out" of the distribution.

We CANNOT CONVERT people to unix unless the OS works. Look at the "Review Forum", folks bash SUSE or praise SUSE for various reasons. Any bashing is bad news and COULD be avoided if the evaluation versions include EVERYTHING (which seems to have been the goal of many linux distro's for a long time).

Novell should learn this lesson: "Folks that don't buy OS's will NEVER buy OS's...PERIOD" You CAN'T FORCE THEM. If you make your linux distro "unaccessable", they will convert to another distro...RedHat learned this lesson...a.k.a. Fedora Core...the OS isn't the revenue business, TRAINING and SERVICE is..(are you listening Novell?)..the "community version" shouldn't be "broken" or "limited".

And...People don't "think" they buy an OS even when they buy a new computer. It just COMES with winbloze and most people don't care.

Novell (as a company) should be concerned with VOLUME and CONVERTING people. Some will pay, some won't. If you don't gain market share, you wont win....Only USERS will buy SERVICE..(the money comes from service...I said it before)..

But...I love SuSE...so, looks like I will buy the DVD.....(maybe not...just stick with 9.2 and download all the missing packages from the GNU (automake, autogen, makeinfo, bison, flex...etc..etc.etc.).....If SuSE support gets better (I've read more bashing on this on the review forum)..then I just might renew my service plans.

THANKS! cheers all!...

I've been testing Novell Linux Desktop (running GNOME) during the last week > very slick.

Novell also offer a voluminous getting started manual you can download to begin learning about Linux.

Highly recommended. Good work Novell.

yeah...highly recommended...but..I've for the last 2 days been attempting to get Apache/MySQL/PHP setup on SUSE...

NO!! I DO NOT use the versions that come with SuSE. EVEN if I was to purchase the DVD...
Apache/MySQL/PHP do NOT come distributed with the "FTP Professoinal Download"... How can we do our development?

It is IMPOSSIBLE to compile Apache/MySQL/PHP with SuSE...DEVEL headers are NOT available. Now I'm in the process of Recompiling QT3 because the QT3-DEVEL package is not available.

I have openldap, openslp, makeinfo, texinfo, automake, autogen, libxml2, libxslt, mysql 4.1, Cyrus-SASL, heimdal (for GASSAPI), libiconv .18, bison, flex, apr, apr-util, openssl, and a Download of the Xorg 6.8.2RC3 (SuSE's download site happened to have DEVEL packages for the supplimentary) so I can get devel headers for libXpm...and..now QT3 so I can get headers for qtdom...geeze..I should just make my own distro...

This all seems rediculous....(no...haven't gone to the store yet to get a DVD...but..I'm in Singapore...will take a long time for me to get one)...

I just WISH SuSE 9.2 Professional FTP (and Novell's SUSE download site) wasn't broken. Makes me want to break down and go to Fedora Core 3 ( goodbye YaST... )....

NOT Good work Novell

OH! And...If you have an ATI RADEON...be SURE to download the SUPPLEMENTARY XORG (IMHO)...you will like it better...mabye...just my O. (I just installed it...radically changed my screen geometry)

The fact that you're playing around with Xorg and having the problems you've outlined, tells me that you're trying to compete in the Olympics without the necessary training.

You should be coming up to speed on the standard stuff, get that working first before you start playing around with the experimental.

There's untold documentation on getting a SUSE LINUX setup operational for LAMP. Try that first, and once you've mastered that, then move on.

you misunderstand...I gave up because I got TIRED...

LAMP is EASY if you download and install SUSE Packages.

E.A.S.Y EASY

That is NOT the point...YOU miss the point......

DEVEL packages are NOT provided for 9.2 (At least in the FTP download images....and are NOT available online for download)...THEREFORE, YOU must create them yourself...from the SOURCE packages provided....

e.g....rpmbuild --rebuild <source>.rpm

This will nicely give you your headers during the install (If you have a nicer way, then great! let me know)....

REMEMBER the UNTOLD DOCUMENTATION is for SUSE versions PRIOR to 9.2. 9.2 is a "completely" different animal. (Thank you Novell).

I use PHP 4.3.9 (if that's with SUSE 9.2..fine..wasn't on my distro)...but..that's not the point either...

I use MySQL 4.1.9. After installing all the MISSING packages and recompiling EVERYTHING just because DEVEL packages are NOT available...this compiles and installs fine..

BTW...my 4.1.9 MySQL package sits all by itself in the "/opt" directory. ld.so.conf updated appropriately for dynamic clients...but at the end of the chain..don't want to conflict with SuSE mysql 4.0 clients......you can start mysql 4.1 or SUSE's 4.0 version as you wish...or even run them both at the same time (socket files and ports are unique between my versions)

SECOND...I NEED the 4.1 client. The 4.0 client in SuSE's PHP distribution (downloadable from their FTP site) is NOT sufficient. Therfore, I must recompile PHP..plus...the PHP compilation parameters for the version shipped with SUSE doe NOT meet my requirements.

NOW is where we get to the FUN part....

PHP Compiles have lots of FUN packages that I USE in our software development in our shop...

Namely qtom, xslt ,xml, etc...we use Sablotron...1.0 (again, not delivered with SuSE)..and must have libiconv 1.8 compiled and linked (with the CP932 patch) with the release...(again, not delivered with SUSE)..

Compiling PHP was IMPOSSIBLE on SUSE because the DEVEL packages for QT3 were NOT available and QT3 would NOT compile becuase DEVEL packages for Xorg were NOT avaible. ..again..we require the qtdom module in our software develpment.

Once I installed XORG from SUSE, I had headers for Xorg..but STILL not for QT3 and compiling QT3 can be DIFFICULT if all the correct headers and devel packages for the dependencies are not available.

Every time I did an rpmbuild --rebuild and examined the dependency list...The backtrace of compiliation sequence kept getting bigger and bigger and branching in multiple directions...

Therefore...I got TIRED...I did NOT want to REBUILD the ENTIRE SUSE distribution (which I could do if I felt like it)...

So...I gave up after 3 days.

Fedora Core 3 is now on my machine...with NONE of the Installation headaches from SuSE 9.2 (SUSE 9.2 Xorg initial distirbution DVD failed because of Xorg bugs...and SAX2 bugs..therefore...X wouldn't work on my machine until the initial "online update" was successful)..

With Fedora Core 3, I have all my devel packages, and my MySQL 4.1, and PHP is nicely compiled and installed and the Apache 2 release that came with FC3....only half day...

SUSE 9.2 is GREAT for USERS...Believe me, I've told MY users that we may continue to use SUSE...but for my developers...it's back to FC.

Thanks for listening...

I dont work at Novell but know for a fact that they ARE reading stuff like this forum. I just wish someone from Novell would step forward and acknowledge that they do.

QT3-devel: ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/linux/suse/ftp.sus...-24.1.i586.rpm
XOrg-devel: ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/linux/suse/ftp.sus...-15.4.i586.rpm
mySQL-devel: ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/linux/suse/ftp.sus...1-4.2.i586.rpm

Maybe I also missed the point in your post.
BTW: it would be nicer if you refrain from shouting so much, thanks

The Pro version, which is not available for download and must be paid for, does have all the development packages. The Personal version doesn't - it's not designed as a development tool simply a user tool.

If you were to go out and by a copy of the Pro edition, you wouldn't have these problems.

Alternatively, assuming you went to an official site and got a correct SuSE Novell Pro download, you may not have selected the development packages.

Did you get it from an official source?

I think SUSE 9.2 Professional is available for download.

I downloaded the DVD iso image and installed any development packages I wanted.

I was hoping this thread would die a while back because of the misleading title. I haven't seen any GPL software that Novell distributes that isn't available for download.

And indeed it is. Why you're choosing to make it difficult on yourself is hard to comprehend. As XavierP noted, if you want the development packages ASAP, the simplest thing to do is just purchase the Pro release. If you don't want to spend the money, or you've got time to spare and want to experiment with manually installing PHP, etc, that's up to you, but surely your company spent a lot more for 3 days of your salary than it would have spent on a copy of Pro. With all due respect, I'd say your comment of "NOT Good work Novell" is entirely undeserved. I'm hardly the LAMP guru, but in v9.1 Pro I was able to get things up and running with very little trouble. In any case, good luck. -- J.W.