We should have a "Contributions" section of this forum

Originally Posted by sahko 1) this wasnt a war post.

Then don't make false claims.

2) Do you understand the difference between official documentation and user contributed one?

Certainly.
So, copying everything upsteam to /usr/doc folder is a top notch documentation but sharing user's experiences and Tips and tricks aren't useful? I see your point.
Btw, Arch is a community based distro, there is nothing "official" about it.

3) you are welcome to check the parts of both distributions i mentioned before. Just look at /usr/doc for example. Arch doesnt copy most of the documentation that comes from upstream.

Funny we have it in /usr/share/doc and Licenses in /usr/share/licenses

We don't supply 4Gb DVD with documentation as it's against "The Arch Way". Slackware has a different philosophy, while Arch has a different one. Do it yourself.

4) I didnt say anything about code. But the documentation that comes with it. Which in Arch is non existant for the most part.

Like?

5) The only piece of user official documentation Arch media comes with is the Installation Guide. Have you ever heard of anyone who was able to install it using this document? Most people dont even read it...

All you can say is "official". Funny, is slackbuilds official? Where do you install most of your packages from? Is linuxpackages.net official? What is so "official" about slackware?
Btw, it is recommended by even developers to go through the Beginner's Guide alongwith the official guide. Everything is available in the wiki I mentioned before. If a person can't install Arch reading them, they shouldn't be using Arch in the first place. Arch is not for everyone.

As i said before Slackware has a wiki too.

Who said it doesn't?

I will only suggest you to check your facts about Arch before criticizing it. Just have a look at Arch communiy contribution section and you will find that Archers are the biggest geeks on the planet! Heck we even write meaningless codes and debug them for fun. Arch community has a huge number of contributors and talented coders. Also take a look at our new ArchHurd project which was started just for fun.

Hi Shylock

Arch is nice, although i'm not very much into the "rolling release" thing, and Archers are great geeks allright, but are they the greatest on the planet...?

... dunno.. I guess ppl from BLFS, or Crux also are great coders...

I never got to understad how the heck one installs a thingie like BLFS or Crux...

... not why one does it, but simply HOW does one acomplish it...

BRGDS

Alex

Rolling release should be used with care and only if you have the time nd ability to fix your b0rk system. I can tell you that most of the slackers [according to the poll I had created a while back] uses Slackware as rolling release as well! So its not Arch-specific but user-preference.
As for being geeks, I think Archers are biggest geeks, not being arrogant though, I mean they are real geeks who have a huge thread going on in offtopic to explain why they are geeks. Plain nuts!!
BLFS and crux are nice, you just need time and a looooooot of patience.

Hi sahko and ~sHyLoCk~,

I don't think anything good will come out of bashing each other over which distro has the best and or the most authentic documentation.
Both Arch and Slackware are respected distros that have an avid following.
This thread is careening a bit off-topic. Perhaps we should get back on-topic on how to make effective contributions to Slackware.
Just my .

Originally Posted by hitest Hi sahko and ~sHyLoCk~, I don't think anything good will come out of bashing each other over which distro has the best and or the most authentic documentation. Both Arch and Slackware are respected distros that have an avid following. This thread is careening a bit off-topic. Perhaps we should get back on-topic on how to make effective contributions to Slackware. Just my .

Well said and agreed. In my defense I never bashed Slackware, I'm a slacker myself! Just not a fanboy!! I'm just trying to clear a few negative statements being made against Arch. I use both for different purposes. Heck i even use windows xp for gaming.

EDIT: About contributions, like I said editing the wikis and writing tutorials would be very helpful for everyone. Also to increase the number of packages, I think submitting slackbuilds at slackbuilds.org will be a huge contribution and help other slackers who want the same package! This will save the time of writing their own slackbuilds.

Slackware is setup to be a minimal wrapper around GNU/Linux applications instead of a fully integrated and customized GNU/Linux software distribution. Therefore the Slackware-specific problems are generally few and far between and are documented in the ChangeLog, CHANGES_AND_HINTS.TXT or other official documentation. The reason Arch's wiki is so nice is that it details customizing *software*. Honestly, duplicating this effort would be a massive waste of time. I think it would be more beneficial to create some documentation about Slackware-specific issues and then point out existing links for software-specific issues (gentoo and arch have very nice wikis, and even the ubuntu community can be helpful). Detailing how to customize your .Xdefaults file, for example, would be a wasted effort since it has already been done throughly on the Arch wiki. Just go there and learn. Most information is relevant to Slackware or *any* Linux distribution; it's just that Arch's wiki is one of the few places that actually provides good information for more advanced users, as well as noobs.

I don't think there's anything wrong with improving the community-based documentation for Slackware-specific issues, or customizing advanced software that may be better done differently in Slack compared to other distros (stuff like apache, for instance, where most distros highly customize their packages rendering any relevance to Slackware moot). That being said I will repeat my view that trying to duplicate Arch's fantastic community-based efforts in the Slackware community not only will not happen but isn't useful anyway. I highly doubt based on this community (as nice as it is) that anyone will create a web browser for the nerds among us (eg, uzbl in arch, though I prefer vimprobable2). The two communities are different but can help each other (though in my opinion Slack users should be thanking the arch community for their documentation, as we seem to get more from them than they do from us). I may not like Arch the distro but there's no arguing that Arch the community is amazing if you're into nerdier endeavours.

Hi,

Originally Posted by ~sHyLoCk~ Well said and agreed. In my defense I never bashed Slackware, I'm a slacker myself! Just not a fanboy!! I'm just trying to clear a few negative statements being made against Arch. I use both for different purposes. Heck i even use windows xp for gaming. EDIT: About contributions, like I said editing the wikis and writing tutorials would be very helpful for everyone. Also to increase the number of packages, I think submitting slackbuilds at slackbuilds.org will be a huge contribution and help other slackers who want the same package! This will save the time of writing their own slackbuilds.

You keep feeding the flame with bait. So I'll bite.

Contributions by the user base is important to insure the on going development of a distribution. It does depend on a open minded maintainer and team. From my point Slackware has evolved to a state that will require PV to make some difficult decisions in the near future with the Slackware distribution. Knowing the history of Slackware I'm sure things will work to the advantage of the Slackware user base.

One thing that I do know is that documentation for a Slackware release is better than most. Now, on-line support is another factor. Thankfully users do have the LQ Slackware forums to present their queries along with likes or dislikes when using Slackware. I will not use 'Usenet' since there are some real weird users out there who have attempted to destroy a useful tool. The hassle is just not worth it for me. I can get heated easily enough around LQ.

If I'm a fanboy then so be it. I just happen to agree with PV and the Slackware philosophy. Thankfully Slackware does live up to it's stability and security philosophy along with the usefulness that meets my needs for a Distribution.

Sadly not everyone that utilizes Slackware contributes to the on going development of wikis, howtos or whatever to allow the sharing of useful information. But that is the norm for one to carry the ball to the end zone but the small team aided to get that same runner there. So fanboys we are!

EDIT: Fanpersons for those that require PCness.

Wow. This thread almost spiraled into a flaming demise. Thanks, hitest and the others for bringing it back under control.

I guess the best solution is a combination of those suggested: contribute to the wiki, put personal discoveries in personal blogs, and link to all that stuff in signatures so others know and do the same.

Originally Posted by ~sHyLoCk~ I will only suggest you to check your facts about Arch before criticizing it.

Since i rewrote/revamped the Official Arch Linux installation guide that came with the 2009.02 ISOs , even though i wasnt even using the distribution at the time, i guess i have no choice but to disagree with you.
But since you are feeling so confident you are welcome to share your own documentation contributions...

Last but not least, since you still dont get it, when i say Official documentation i mean the one that comes from the distribution itself, & not the stuff in /usr/doc that come with the applications from upstream as you are assuming above.
You know, the kind that Arch doesnt have any.

Your complaint is that reading mailing list is too complicated, where the devs put out commit changes to public? Instead Arch should have a changelog like slackware? How? It's a rolling release bleeding-edge distribution! Do you know why it's high traffic? Take a guess! It's impossible to track a changelog that huge and update it every few minutes! How often does Slackware changelog get updated?
Arch does have an official user guide [as you know] , as much is needed, fairly simple and straightforward. The rest of the stuff is user's responsibility! Firstly Arch is not targeted at newbies, whereas Slackware mentions that it can be used by any user [experienced and newbies alike!]. I see many Slackers here falling back on Arch wikis for solutions. That speaks for the quality of Arch wiki and Archers itself. You may hate me or Arch Linux all you want, but don't say it "copies" stuffs from everywhere else, it's a wiki, you edit it, you contribute towards it. Something that's lacking from Slack community and you know it. Slackware has lesser no. of contributors. Slackbuilds is a perfect example. Why not submit packages? Why depend on the devs for everything?

I agree with T3slider's and onebuck's post.
It's sad that a simple topic took such a turn, attacking Arch out of nowhere was uncalled for and unfair! [just because I expressed my appreciation towards the Arch wiki and was really excited to see an Archer here, recently pixellany, hitest, voyciz and a few slackers went to Arch forum and I greeted them with same excitement, it's a great thing that these two communities can share and learn from each others instead of throwing mud and comparing which one is better than the other!]
I will take my leave now and won't post in this topic anymore, you are free to disagree all you want and compare "official" documentations.
Good day!

lol

Hi,

I really don't think this is funny nor a lite subject. Slackware & Arch have met the needs of their user base. The community in each is varied with how much the users participate or support their distribution. Not every user adds back nor contributes in any fashion but proudly states the distribution(s) in use.

Just think if anyone posting to this thread had placed the same amount of time in supporting the distribution of choice as they placed in posting. How much help?

I think everyone has a valid point in support of Slackware & Arch. Sure Slackware doesn't have the people involved in a wiki as much as Arch. But Slackware's support at this forum aids everyone actively. Either by nudging the person to a solution or flat out pointing out a recipe to the solution. Still help!

I've used the ArchWiki at times for a quick reference but I still rely on documentation relative to Slackware for positive information that is relative to the distribution.

So gentlemen let's tone it down a bit. Take a few deep breaths and release slowly then meet at the center of the ring.

I really like both, personally. I used Arch extensively for a time, but it just goes a little fast for me. That's only because I don't have enough time to keep up with it. With Slackware, I can take it easy. Plus, I just feel comfortable with Slack for some reason.

My 0.02 EUR:

Slackware documentation is generally good. The information in text files that come with it is concise, but precise and complete. They certainly give good guidance for setting up a system for the most common usage scenarios.

After installation, or for more specialised scenarios, LQ.org is a great resource. However, I was able to solve some of my issues in the past only thanks to articles written for other distros. I found lots of good stuff in the SuSE support database (my personal favourite) and in the Wikis for Ubuntu and Arch. One thing I learned to like about them is that many of the articles and wiki pages I found there are available not only in English, but in translations to many other languages, including my native tongue.

As good as the documentation of Slackware is, it wouldn't hurt to have such a source of information in addtion, too, I think. Of course, I know that this would require people to actively contribute, maintain, translate and operate the platform, whatever it would be. But, although I don't know, I'd assume that Slackware has a larger user base than Arch (probably not as big as the user base of SuSE or Ubuntu, of course). So we should be able to do it, if we really want.

On the other hand, there's no need to replicate content that is already there. As I said, I could use easily information provided by and addressed to users of other distros. And, BTW, I used information found in this forum for solving issues in a SuSE system. So it works in both directions.

So, I am not sure, if we need it, but the idea is worth thinking about, IMHO.

gargamel

Seems I forgot to mention one of the most helpful resources of information for Slackware:

Alien Bob's Slackware Wiki.

In fact, I think, this is the kind of thing the OP had in mind.

gargamel