That picture is so funny!

This one?
http://www.microlinux.fr/download/systemd.jpg

No system will even require systemd on any level once logind is cloned out to ConsoleKit2 fully and multi-seat login management is finished. The init for FreeBSD is trivial at best, but completely unnecessary in change needs. Bsdinit works fine, and has worked fine for years. Plus, using /etc/rc.conf is painless to do. Plus, every FreeBSD system is minimal in start-up so not everyone is going to just install all the ports mindlessly and turn on each and every service. If you did such a thoughtless act, you deserve to be given a good pitchfork to the butt by Beastie himself. FreeBSD is a highly customizable system so realistically, a new init system is pointless.

And launchd, sorry but Apple stuff is evil. OSX might be based on BSD, but BSD is not OSX.

1 members found this post helpful.

I would not consider Apple evil. It may even have a few good features. A company like Microsoft might deserve being called evil, because of its business practices, but the Windows operating system is not evil, nor are Apple's systems. The Apple company is much more likeable than Microsoft. So evil may be a strong word to describe Apple.

I consider Apple evil for several reasons:

1. They completely closed source their systems. Darwin, OpenDarwin, and PureDarwin don't even come close and I think they aren't even being developed (PureDarwin might still be but last I heard their development was far behind OSX).
2. They try desperately to disallow and/or lock out users from root access both on OSX and iOS. You JailBreak a device and the next update they kick it back out.
3. They attempt to enforce the aspect of "we know what's best for the stupid user". It's nice that you make an OS that a 5 year old can use, but no one stays a 5 year old forever.

However, I do admit they do have high quality products and software, but often at times, I feel belittled by the lack of customizability of their software.

2 members found this post helpful.

http://opensource.apple.com/? So not completely.

Yes, and swapping out sound cards or network cards leads to me deleting rules out of /etc/udev/rules.d and letting udev take care of it. Really, though, it's the early-boot issues that have gotten to me, so I'm sure to preen Slackware's default set of rules into something that udev and the kernel like every time.

I'll take that as a recommendation! I've 2-3 cards that regular FreeBSD cannot use that look like they could be supported. The download link keeps offering a link for OSS for FreeBSD 10, but that leads to a 404 page. [Web site issue: Their actual list offered OSS for FreeBSD 9.] Is it all a decent experience WRT system and kernel upgrades? I liked Linux commercial OSS back in the day, especially that excellent setup program. My gripe is that support wasn't all that long when it came to kernel upgrades. The actual experience was very good.

OSX is only partially open source. The core of the project is still closed source.

The same can be said for the majority of commercial entities... locking out your "intelectual properties" is normal now and is done by most companies. There's a few exceptions like Tesla, but if you look at a company hoping to gain money from customers, more often than not, you're going to be met with closed source systems, limiting users, and "we know what's best for the stupid user". This happens with anything with computers. You're locked out of most aspects of programming your car (short of buying $300 reprogramming kits), usually you can't update your smart tv unless the manufacturer has an update available, just about every cell phone (with a small amount of exceptions) come without "root" or only allow updates via the manufacturer. Apple certainly isn't unique in this. Unfortunately, with the way the US patent system is set up and the way companies think, this is standard business practice.

I can only hope that one of these court battles will eventually bring some game changing legislation that will turn all that stuff upside down.

Exactly why I (and I suspect many of us) avoid doing business with most companies. Institutionalized evil is not something I am eager to fund.


That's right, and as long as people are foolish enough to buy such junk, they'll keep making such junk.

All you can do is sit on your hands and hope someone else will solve the problem for you? Someone with absolutely no interest in doing what you want, no less?

No, get real. All you can do is refuse to buy junk, and if they manage to fool you into purchasing it, take it back and demand a refund. There are already laws about defective products.

And if you won't do that, you are part of the problem.

I think many of us do do business with "institutionalized evil" whether it be HW or SW. Furthermore what you're saying is we all ought to buy pre '78 or so cars and never own a phone of any nature or a tablet??

No company is evil or good they can't be they have no emotions or inherent being they are simply paper.

IG Farben.

In that sentiment there, let's replace the word "company" with "government" or "gang" or "cartel," to see how likely people are to agree with it then.

Sure, you might be able to argue it into meaninglessness with the various forms of philosophical, linguistic and logical argument... but normal, everyday, laymen who make up the majority of the world will say that "A company can be evil."

Are we supposed to be lay people here? This is a Linux forum and specifically the Slackware forum where folks are supposed to be more enlightened. If this is not the case than yes Google, MS, and Apple are evil they should know that the world is one big Kibbutz.

I'm not willing to live in a box just on principle...

Unfortunately, if you want to enjoy most of the niceties in this world, you're going to have to buy from these companies at some point. I try and put my money where it's beneficial when I can. This is why I haven't ever bought Windows (unless it came on an OEM laptop), never bought Office, don't own any Apple products, have only bought Google's Nexus smartphones (with one exception... I slipped and bought the HTC One X, with it's horribly "unlocked" bootloader that required kernel flashings separate from ROM flashings), always buy my components separately for my computers. I speak out when I can and I donate to the EFF. But, just as Germany_chris mentioned, I'm not going to be stuck with a carbureted car just because I'm not happy with the fact that I can't reprogram my "Infotainment" display or change my transmission shift points on my Ford Fusion.

You can say a lot of things on principle, but I'm not about to severely limit my life just because I don't agree with how CEOs run their businesses.

And I'd venture a guess that you're either running an AMD/ATI, Nvidia, or Intel graphics card in your computer. I'm pretty sure that you're part of the problem too. None of them have a fully functioning open-source driver. Many may have most of the functions availbale on Linux, but you're either going to used the closed source driver or be limiting what you're actually capable of if you run that other OS (and the closed source driver on linux may still limit you vs what you can do on Windows). If we looked around your house/apartment/etc, I'd bet there's a lot of items you own that would make you just as much of the problem as many of us. Sometimes, you just have to go with the best on what we're offered, even if that means supporting an evil corporation.

2 members found this post helpful.

Yes -- lay people in the context of my recent post are people that do not have PHD's in philosophy or logic. Probably quite a few CS degrees here,. not so many LA degrees though.

Nope - being on a technical forum does not guarantee that the people here are "enlightened" -- read through any thread about systemd to see evidence of this.

Agreed - Google, MS and Apple are evil.

Edit: I realized that this is a thread about systemd, with a 1-star rating. I'm out, and apologize for adding to the derailment of the thread.