SlackwareThis Forum is for the discussion of Slackware Linux.
Notices
Welcome to LinuxQuestions.org, a friendly and active Linux Community.
You are currently viewing LQ as a guest. By joining our community you will have the ability to post topics, receive our newsletter, use the advanced search, subscribe to threads and access many other special features. Registration is quick, simple and absolutely free. Join our community today!
Note that registered members see fewer ads, and ContentLink is completely disabled once you log in.
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you need to reset your password, click here.
Having a problem logging in? Please visit this page to clear all LQ-related cookies.
Get a virtual cloud desktop with the Linux distro that you want in less than five minutes with Shells! With over 10 pre-installed distros to choose from, the worry-free installation life is here! Whether you are a digital nomad or just looking for flexibility, Shells can put your Linux machine on the device that you want to use.
Exclusive for LQ members, get up to 45% off per month. Click here for more info.
Likewise here. I'm utterly baffled at why KDE 4 is in Slackware 13 at all; I could see it being included in /testing, or /extras. That would make sense.
With KDE3 pretty much winding down (probably there will not be further releases) and projects dropping KDE3 support in favor of KDE4, the time was right to make the move to KDE4 in Slackware.
As Smoooth103 said, KDE 3 (and the KDE apps that run on it) have pretty much reached end of life and will no longer be supported.
I had this in another thread about "upgrading" KDE4 to KDE3.5, but I think the point is still really relevant (I normally don't toot my own horn, so sorry for this).
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob.rice
but why on earth was this alpha version included in slackware
before this slackware could be counted on to have only mature fully debugged and polished software
KDE 3.5 should be an option until 4.xx is ready for prime time ( at least 2years from now maybe 3 )
KDE 4.2 belongs in testing NOT in the main distro without the option of of a working KDE
this is a huge chunk of the system to be broken
so badly
KDE 4.2 is so bad it makes the best distro there ever was nothing more than a toy distro
This is far from the Alpha version. And yes, I do know what you meant by that. The big problem that I think is causing a lot of strife with the linux community is the way that KDE decided to do their versions. But they made it clear from the beginning that 4.0 was not supposed to be for regular end-users, but way too many distros hopped on the train and included it. Which in turn made many users angry that KDE would have the audacity to release buggy code like that, even though they specifically stated it that the code was not meant to be stable.
Now I am sure this whole discussion took place when KDE went from 2.x to 3.x, but that was before my time in Linux (and probably a similar one when Gnome was dropped). One problem you have with a distro like Slack (if you see this as a problem), is your opinion is meaningless. It is all the vision of Pat. And he felt that KDE 4 was already running great and a worthwhile replacement around the release of 12.2 (I don't remember if it was the /testing version that he was refering to, or if it was shortly after the beginning stages of development of 13.0). As with any major rewriting of code, it takes a lot to get things back to a functional stage. But to get it to the level that KDE 3.5.10 had only a year after release is ridiculous. KDE 3.0 was originally released in April of 2002, and the 3.5.x series was released in November of 2005.
There wasn't any innovation being done with the 3.5 series, and if nothing is done, it stagnates. So something obviously had to be done. Now comes the problem of when to upgrade. There are many programs out there that have ceased development on the 3.5.x series of KDE and have ported or rewrote their applications to work with KDE 4. So how does Pat decide when to alienate some users?? On either end of the spectrum it is going to happen. I am sure when Pat didn't include KDE 4 in prior releases people started distro-hopping to find one that did, just like since he has decided to not include the 3.5.x series, that people will will do the same thing, but to find a distro still using 3.5.x. Or maybe we will get some community supported versions of KDE 3.5.x just like with gnome, but only time will tell on that. I think there is a fine line between stability and old/stale and new/bleeding-edge software sometimes. I think the way Patrick has done this is well done.
Also the KDE 4.3.x series is more of a polishing than a feature release, which is what I feel the subsequent versions of 3.5.x were.
KDE 4 runs faster and smoother than KDE 3 does on my laptop and my laptop is around 5 years old (Centrino 1.6, 1GB, 64MB shared vram with Intel 855 video). And this was the KDE 4.1 release. It also runs extremely smooth in my VM. The Alpha that you are mentioning, I have not seen. It has been an extremely stable DE and I am excited to see what 4.2.4 has to offer when 13.0 is released.
Distribution: Slackware64-current with "True Multilib" and KDE4Town.
Posts: 9,098
Rep:
Quote:
Originally Posted by amiga32
I don't know, I think everyone is being too hard on the inclusion of KDE 4. What would a brand new dot zero Slackware release be without a few liberal changes, especially a new desktop? Pat can't cling on to KDE 3.5 forever guys. It's already pretty much dead and personally I was getting bored with it anyways. There's no direction it can possibly go except down.....
Can you please explain how KDE 4.xx whose applications are not as functional or configurable as their KDE 3.5.10 counterparts can be a step up?
At least 3.5.10 worked. 4.xx does not, or not as well as 3.5.10.
So, we are suppose to bite the bullet, feel the pain, give up a known working product and use an unfinished product because those in power feel for whatever reasons it will SOMEDAY, BUt NOT NOW, be a good desktop? Boggles the mind! Sheeeeezzzzzzz
Last edited by cwizardone; 09-01-2009 at 09:41 AM.
So, we are suppose to bite the bullet, feel the pain, give up a known working product and use an unfinished product because those in power feel for whatever reasons it will SOMEDAY, BUt NOT NOW, be a good desktop?
No, you can simply ignore 13.0 and stick with 12.2 or you can try another Windows Manager (ex: XFCE, fluxbox) or, may I say, switch to another distro.
PV explained in detail the reasons for the switch to KDE4 in the RELEASE_NOTES.
Fluxbox is always a good choice! Personally, I think KDE4 rocks, I've been using it since it came out as their 'testing' (right around 4.0). It may not be as solid as 3.5 but at least we're finally seeing some innovation on their part. I have to agree with gegechris and say that if you don't like PV's choice, there's always Ubuntu...
Can you please explain how KDE 4.xx whose applications are not as functional or configurable as their KDE 3.5.10 counterparts can be a step up?
At least 3.5.10 worked. 4.xx does not, or not as well as 3.5.10.
So, we are suppose to bite the bullet, feel the pain, give up a known working product and use an unfinished product because those in power feel for whatever reasons it will SOMEDAY, BUt NOT NOW, be a good desktop? Boggles the mind! Sheeeeezzzzzzz
As you know Slackware 13.0 ships with a plethora of desktop environments. If KDE 4.2.4 is not to your liking give XFce 4.6.1 a try. I alternate between KDE and XFce on Slackware 13.0. XFce is quite full-featured, light and fast.
Like it or not, cwizardone, KDE 3.5.10 is dead.
Distribution: Slackware64-current with "True Multilib" and KDE4Town.
Posts: 9,098
Rep:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gankoji
...I have to agree with gegechris and say that if you don't like PV's choice, there's always Ubuntu...
That attitude is something that has bothered me since I first signed on to this forum. While most of the members here are friendly and willing to help when they can, there are a few who cannot or will not join in a debate or discussion of the pros and cons of any particular issue, but rather are quick to basically say, "like it or take a hike."
Lemmings to the sea and all that....
Last edited by cwizardone; 09-01-2009 at 11:57 AM.
That attitude is something that has bothered me since I first signed on to this forum. While most of the members here are friendly and willing to help when they can, there are a few who cannot or will not join in a debate or discussion of the pros and cons of any particular issue, but rather are quick basically say, "like it or take a hike."
Lemmings to the sea and all that....
Then don't let the minority bother you. I'm sure you've seen by now the posts explaining how to "upgrade" from KDE 4.x to 3.5.10.
Just finished my third install of Slackware 13 after waiting since release day for Gnome to compile. Still amazed at the simplicity under Slackware. Even most of the info in the Slackbook that came along from version 11 still works.
By the way, can't get the system tools in Gnome to work. Just doesn't find any system information to insert into the boxes and panels for users and groups etc. Had this problem with Arch Linux too but they just don't seem to care about repairing it.
Anyway, other two installs are running on KDE and Fluxbox. Both are really speedy (Core2Duo E4400, 2GB Ram, Intel G945 Onboard) but I'm struggling to use to KDE, it seems a bit messy to navigate around and there are file names and folders that just seem to hang in the middle of graphics with now real 'structure' to hold them on to the page; might be better with it in a week or so. Fluxbox is just great and I was testing it before shoving it onto an old laptop (Sony Vaio P3, 1GB Ram). Will try XFCE again soon because I like the way it renders the windows.
Other than that, totally stable, installation was a breeze and should do me good for at least the next 3 years on all my machines.
That attitude is something that has bothered me since I first signed on to this forum. While most of the members here are friendly and willing to help when they can, there are a few who cannot or will not join in a debate or discussion of the pros and cons of any particular issue, but rather are quick to basically say, "like it or take a hike."
Lemmings to the sea and all that....
@cwizardone: I apologize for my ambiguous intentions there, I only meant to whimsically remind everyone of their options ;-). Also, you have to remember that you weren't exactly asking for help, rather bashing the distro and the creators. That seems to remind me of a certain saying about flies and honey and vinegar and such...
Last edited by gankoji; 09-01-2009 at 12:20 PM.
Reason: Spelling/grammar errors.
I've noticed quite a few comments about things "not working" in KDE4. What specifically? I think people get frustrated because some of the items in KDE4 are non-intuitive or not consistent with the same method of acheiving the same task under 3.5.
People also saying too much processing overhead on slower machines? You can cut off all those fancy effects and make it look and feel exactly like 3.5. It's a lot easier to cut off those effects and unnecessary things now as well.
I've noticed quite a few comments about things "not working" in KDE4. What specifically? I think people get frustrated because some of the items in KDE4 are non-intuitive or not consistent with the same method of acheiving the same task under 3.5.
People also saying too much processing overhead on slower machines? You can cut off all those fancy effects and make it look and feel exactly like 3.5. It's a lot easier to cut off those effects and unnecessary things now as well.
In my case it's a simple matter of stability. There's no specific program that causes it (as far as I can tell), but KDE4 is not as stable as 3.5, at least not on my computers.
Currently KDE4 is not able to keep up with the pressure of my regular workload. As written earlier, my computers are work-tools. I'm not just reading email, web surfing and listening to a bit of music.
As for look and feel, I'm very impressed with KDE4, and I truly look forward to the day where it is as stable and solid as 3.5. I will switch in a heartbeat.
Currently KDE4 is a toy, and my work is too important for me and my family to be trusted to a toy. I have rent to pay, and a crashing/freezing toy DE is not helping me bring in the cash to do so.
In my case it's a simple matter of stability. There's no specific program that causes it (as far as I can tell), but KDE4 is not as stable as 3.5, at least not on my computers.
Currently KDE4 is not able to keep up with the pressure of my regular workload. As written earlier, my computers are work-tools. I'm not just reading email, web surfing and listening to a bit of music.
As for look and feel, I'm very impressed with KDE4, and I truly look forward to the day where it is as stable and solid as 3.5. I will switch in a heartbeat.
Currently KDE4 is a toy, and my work is too important for me and my family to be trusted to a toy. I have rent to pay, and a crashing/freezing toy DE is not helping me bring in the cash to do so.
/Thomas
I could see that KDE4 potentially is not as stable as 3.5. My experience is that if you have something runnning that is reliable, work dependent especially, why upgrade at all? Even though Slackware is on the forefront of reliability, anytime you upgrade isn't there inherently more technical issues and bugs? There has to be a happy medium between being on the "cutting edge" and being archaic. I think slackware is it. Why not just load "window maker" or something that is archaic that likely has most of the bugs worked out, and can be purely reliable?
I will likely run 12.2 on my critical machine until I have been sufficiently confident that 13, after some time, testing, and evaluation, will meet my requirements... hard to think everyone has done all that in the 2 days since it has been released.
I'm using Slackware64, and I really like KDE4. That said, I do have issues with k3b. I have had two iso burns fail at 99%. I could install the k3b from /extra, but I can accomplish what I need from the cli. So its not that important to me. I will wait on the k3b developer, then build it.
Other than k3b, I am really enjoying this release. And I intend to stay pure 64 - goodbye google earth.
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing
Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute
content, let us know.
