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Old 05-05-2005, 11:36 AM   #16
nukey
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nobber
Perhaps because slackpkg, while useful for tracking current or installing official patches, is useful ONLY for doing that. Whereas other tools can do that and more, e.g. download from unofficial repositories, perform some kind of dependency resolution, etc.
What exactly do you mean by "unofficial repository's" you mean like "not a standard mirror".

But the question was "how do you keep up with slackware-current"

I install slackpkg, choose a mirror near me that points to the slackware-current directory on a mirrored server, and i tell slackpkg to upgrade all my packages. (or choose them seperatly).

It's SOO easy, and it does JUST what the question says: "keep up with slackware-current"
 
Old 05-05-2005, 11:55 AM   #17
arcturus
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Quote:
Originally posted by SiegeX
Instead of just waving my hands and saying "swaret is bad (tm)" Ill repost something I put in another thread about 2months ago regarding why I believe this to be so.
Curious, u saying Swaret's attempt at dependency checking is worse than not having it at all, notwithstanding the deck of cards Slackware deals?
 
Old 05-05-2005, 12:19 PM   #18
SiegeX
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Great, let us all know what you think once you switch over, whether it be good or bad.

I should also mention that even if you don't use my script, slapt-get already does automatic updating in so far as to say a simple 'slapt-get --update && slapt-get --upgrade' will grab all the new packages for you and install them. All my script does is run the updating for you while you sleep, parse out the data that slapt-get returns and formats it in a nice email for you (and optionally download the packages). This way you dont have to constantly check the changelogs every day
 
Old 05-05-2005, 12:23 PM   #19
SiegeX
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Quote:
Originally posted by arcturus
Curious, u saying Swaret's attempt at dependency checking is worse than not having it at all, notwithstanding the deck of cards Slackware deals?
Absolutly, because official Slackware packages have NO dependancy information AT ALL, zip, zero, nada. Swaret attempts to get around this via 'ldd' and well you can just read the reasons I mentioned above why this is a bad idea. If you want dependancy resolution, then do it right and actually include dependancy meta-data in the packages, and as I mentioned, this is exactly what Vectorlinux did to all of the slackware packages they include in their distro. IMHO this is the only approach I would trust my box with.

Last edited by SiegeX; 05-05-2005 at 12:24 PM.
 
Old 05-05-2005, 12:28 PM   #20
SiegeX
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Quote:
Originally posted by nukey
What exactly do you mean by "unofficial repository's" you mean like "not a standard mirror".

But the question was "how do you keep up with slackware-current"

I install slackpkg, choose a mirror near me that points to the slackware-current directory on a mirrored server, and i tell slackpkg to upgrade all my packages. (or choose them seperatly).

It's SOO easy, and it does JUST what the question says: "keep up with slackware-current"
By "unofficial repository" most people are referring to linuxpackages.net, although their are probably more than that one out there, but thats the major one. Although you're correct, slackpkg does "keep up with slackware-current" just fine, why limit yourself? Slapt-get does both, and IMHO in much nicer interface, afterall its coded to match apt-get's abilities.

P.S.

slackpkg doesn't have my script

Last edited by SiegeX; 05-05-2005 at 12:31 PM.
 
Old 05-05-2005, 02:52 PM   #21
rignes
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My personal opinion is that all the package update tools are just those, tools. As in, if you don't know how to use a hammer and you hurt yourself with it, then it's your fault, not the hammer's. Same goes for swaret, slapt-get, or whatever.

That being said, /any/ tool should be used with a big measure of caution.

I've summarized my opinion on this subject along with they way I use swaret on my blog, I won't repeat it here. However, if you choose to read it feel free to substitute all occurrences of "swaret" with any other update tool name. It can be found at http://rignesnet.tzo.com/archives/20...T22_32_20.html
 
Old 05-05-2005, 03:39 PM   #22
SiegeX
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Quote:
Originally posted by rignes
[B]My personal opinion is that all the package update tools are just those, tools. As in, if you don't know how to use a hammer and you hurt yourself with it, then it's your fault, not the hammer's.
No arguments there, but using the same analogy, not all tools are created equal. I see swaret as a hammer with a broken handle that may or might not snap off at any given moment, and slapt-get (and even slack-pkg) as a sturdy rock-solid hammer.


Oh and BTW I read your blog and ive lost all faith in ##slackware for many reasons, but the situtation you described is definetly one of them. I don't agree that swaret is the best tool for the job, but I full heartedly agree with your statements in general.

Last edited by SiegeX; 05-05-2005 at 03:43 PM.
 
Old 05-05-2005, 03:57 PM   #23
kodon
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Quote:
Originally posted by SiegeX
Great, let us all know what you think once you switch over, whether it be good or bad.


well, i'm having a problem with the script...
but slapt-get itself seems to work. i went ahead and used
swaret for this update though, because i already have my excludes
defined and wanted to authorize all the packages individually.

i have edited the script and it is executable,
but it doesn't seem to do anything. no mail.
nothing in the maillog. anyways, i'm trying to follow
the code to see what is going on...
 
Old 05-05-2005, 04:09 PM   #24
rignes
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Quote:
Originally posted by SiegeX
No arguments there, but using the same analogy, not all tools are created equal. I see swaret as a hammer with a broken handle that may or might not snap off at any given moment, and slapt-get (and even slack-pkg) as a sturdy rock-solid hammer.


Oh and BTW I read your blog and ive lost all faith in ##slackware for many reasons, but the situtation you described is definetly one of them. I don't agree that swaret is the best tool for the job, but I full heartedly agree with your statements in general.
May I ask what specifically about swaret makes you think of it as the broken handled hammer? And what about the other tools makes them better in your eyes? As I've said, I've only used swaret and haven't tried anything else because I've personally had only excellent results with swaret. But that doesn't mean I'm mindlessly stuck on it.

I'm always up for a better tool to make my life easier.

PS. I assume your main problem is the dependency checking? Or do you have other issues. I'll look back on the thread quick and review your comments on why ldd is bad.

Last edited by rignes; 05-05-2005 at 04:12 PM.
 
Old 05-05-2005, 05:27 PM   #25
kodon
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hmm...just tried the other script [update-notifier]
and it works like a charm. sorry i couldn't give you
any feedback on what the problem was, SiegeX.
 
Old 05-06-2005, 06:14 PM   #26
SiegeX
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Quote:
Originally posted by kodon
hmm...just tried the other script [update-notifier]
and it works like a charm. sorry i couldn't give you
any feedback on what the problem was, SiegeX.
Actually, there was no problem, my script is working correctly. You see its job is to notify you when new packages are available. Since you just installed it, and since slackware hasnt released any changes to -current since then, you shouldn't get any email. If you want to force it to send you an email to ensure yourself that it really does work, just edit the date in the /etc/slapt-get/changelog.last file. It doesn't matter what date you change it to as long as its different than what it originally said. Once you save it, re-run my script and you should notice an email in your inbox.

Just to let you know, the entire reason why I wrote my script was because the update-notifier script is totally fubar when tracking -current. It will send you an email every day claiming new packages are available even when thats obviously not true. I emailed the author about this problem over a year ago and he said he had no intensions on making it work for -current. Mine works with both stable and -current.

Last edited by SiegeX; 05-06-2005 at 06:17 PM.
 
Old 05-06-2005, 06:28 PM   #27
SiegeX
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Quote:
Originally posted by rignes
May I ask what specifically about swaret makes you think of it as the broken handled hammer?

PS. I assume your main problem is the dependency checking?
Yes, this is my only problem with swaret, and I consider it a big one because thats swaret's defining feature if you can call it that.

Let me just make it clear that I have no problem with dependancy checking whatsoever, what I do have a problem with is trying to force it upon a system that was not made for it.

I prefer slapt-get over slackpkg and swaret because slapt-get...[list=1][*]Understands *official* packages weren't made with dependancy meta-data and honors that.[*]Has its own dependancy meta-data scheme which has been highly adopted, including an entire distro[*]Works with non-official repositories (ie linuxpackages.net)[*]is modled after apt-get, a tried and true program[*]is under constant development[*]The author is very open to suggestions and often includes the good ones in new releases (ive had two thus far)[*]The author can be reached on IRC in the #slapt-get channel on freenode[/list=1]

Last edited by SiegeX; 05-06-2005 at 06:30 PM.
 
Old 05-06-2005, 06:34 PM   #28
ringwraith
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Is it just me, or is it impossible for this forum to go much over 2 weeks without this thread being repeated.
 
Old 05-06-2005, 06:39 PM   #29
kodon
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there were a couple packages that i hadn't updated yet...
or are you saying that is doesn't check the packages,
but rather the date of the changelog?

went ahead and did an update with slapt-get...
it did catch a package that swaret hadn't updated in ages.

i did notice that the update-notifier uses the --ignore-excludes flag...
but i don't mind getting an email everyday.

also, i tried the --simulate --dist-upgrade options...
i don't like that at all...it insists on uninstalling packages
i have compiled myself as well as re-installing packages
i have uninstalled.

i do wish slapt-get did individual authorization for each update as swaret does,
but otherwise i'm pretty happy with it.
 
Old 05-07-2005, 02:01 PM   #30
SiegeX
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Quote:
there were a couple packages that i hadn't updated yet...
or are you saying that is doesn't check the packages,
but rather the date of the changelog?
This is exactly correct, and in fact *both* my script and the other do it this way. The only reason why you got an email from the other script and not mine is because it's broken trying to use it for current, and the author has admitted as such. Here is a small excerpt from our discussion about 8months ago

Quote:
Like it is now, the script is not tested on upgrading from "current".
Furthermore, it handles only standard Slackware package repositories.
Quote:
also, i tried the --simulate --dist-upgrade options...
i don't like that at all...it insists on uninstalling packages
i have compiled myself as well as re-installing packages
i have uninstalled.
There are actually two problems here, and both are easily fixable. If you want it to ignore custom packages you made yourself, then simply put an identifier on each of the package names and put that identifier in your EXCLUDE list. For example I use checkinstall to make all my custom packages and so I use the '--pkgrelease checkinstall' option which adds the word 'checkinstall' to all of my packages.

If it is trying to upgrade unofficial packages with official packages and you don't want that behavior, then you're in luck because this is one of the features I suggested to the author of slapt-get and it was added in the latest version. Read THIS POST

If you are not fully tracking -current, that is to say you have removed certain packages then use plain old '--upgrade' instead of '--dist-upgrade'. And it wont try to install packages that already have been removed.
 
  


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