Suse 10.1 Alpha

Originally Posted by TigerLinux So far I see Windows Vista and XP got a lot of GUI's difference, but this is not the same thing happends to Suse. I think i won't update to suse 10.1, it is waste of time for installation, my suse 10.0 is working fine in my Laptop.

It is't fair to compare to product with really different release cycles.
XP came out hmmm was it 2001 and Vista will be released this November.

Suse has 6 months in the between.

Think this 10.1. as a Service Pack release as in windows...

With the next 10.2. release we will probably see KDE 4.0 with XGL support and that is going to be huge update.

Does Vista apply XGL also?

Originally Posted by TigerLinux Does Vista apply XGL also?

<OFFTOPIC>
No, they use AERO, if I can recall corretly.

Vista looks great, but the performance is something creepy. YOu really need a P4 machine and 2 gigs of ram, is you want to use all the graphical thingies. I Know its still beta, but the newest version ate all my memory and still it worked kind of slowly. Base components are already in great shape, but in the graphical front there is still really much work to do...

MS told us at first that there will be a new look, new filesystem, new unixlike shell, antivirus, other security improvements,and the list goes on... OK, now only security thingies and the gui will be included in the final vista.


</OFFTOPIC>

thanks for your info.

As onjoo said, Aero, not XGL, though Aero was designed off of specs from the theoretical XGL specs released a few years back, so odds are, Microsoft will do many of the same things with Aero that XGL does, and maybe a few others. The full capabilities of Aero have not yet been demoed or announced. But as he also mentioned, the requirements and performance are currently obscene. Currently about the 1.7% of computers can meet all Vista's specs, including the video. It is pretty high end.

One of the funny parts of Vista, Aero, WinFS(to be released a few months after Vista, more likely later than a few months) and the other real benefits of what Vista was supposed to be has already been announced as going backward to WinXP as well. Only the built in security(which is a REALLY BAD IDEA) and the feature differences from their 7 versions will not be back-ported to XP.

So the good news is basically SP3 for Windows XP will update all of the vista you want, and none of what you don't, so you never have to shell out 700 bucks for the new professional equivilient for gamers and developers. Thanks MS.

may be it can spur more advancement in hardware, encourage people to upgrade PC, and so increase PC business, create more jobs/sales. Good ?

Who knows. This kind of this has a tendency to that. Look at the gaming industry, over the past 20 years, there is no single force that has driven computer literacy and consistently pushed the boundries of technical capabilities than gaming. CPUs, Graphics Cards, Ram, even UI have all been heavily shoved forward because of gaming advancements and the money put in, and the technology required for an ever better gaming experience. Without gaming, a p2 with 64mb of ram is pretty much enough to handle(other than microsoft's bloating.) A lot of video, sound, and even picture formats have come out of such advancements... but I digress heavily and could drone on for hours. Instead let me get back to the latest of the thread, Vista:

http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/21/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes Here is an update on the delayed release of Vista, pushed back now all the way to early 2k7. Bear in mind, original release date was for late 2002, making this in essence, nearly 5 years late, and WinFS, one of the most advanced filesystms and originally touted features of Vista still won't be ready until late 2k7 or 2k8, go figure. It was one of the core components of Vista originally, that and Aero were the first 2 features. Security being one of the later ones, most of which dealing with copyrighting and music/video/file "protection" and other such non security security features which do less for users.

And apparently they are down to 6 "core" versions of Vista, whatever than means, last I heard is still 7 main versions ranging from the low end versions, to "basic", the "home" equivilent, all the way to platnium or ultimate or whatever they decide on topping out for "advanced home users for professional networking, gaming, development, etc." for 700 smackers. Wow.

I should have mentioned before when I said Aero is rumored to be heavily like early drafts of XGL, rumors are it has taken a different turn, and certainly doesn't plan to do fully 3d dektops, like the XGL cube. It focuses more on drawing more complex and deeper full images all over and being more configurable in the whole enviroment, or so goes the rumor mill.

But if you are into nerdy things like OS and File Systems design, Aero and WinFS articles make for some really interesting reading.

While we are all slagging off M$ remember it was largely those overpaid under taxed do nothing Politicians who sit in the European Parliament and the EU commission who have really caused the "6 or 7" versions of Vista insisting that future versions of Windows are "stripped" of as many features as possible and it's up to the USERS to find and load the extra pieces of software they want (basically to give a lot of tin pot companies which really don't do a lot anyway) a sliver of a chance at marketing some useless piece of crud.

For me I have NO OBJECTION if say if M$ I.E is included with Windows. If I don't like it I can always download Mozilla firefox etc.

If I'm a typical user (and most users of this board are much more than "typical users") I basically want to install a system (such as Windows) which has most of the everyday components I need such as a Browser, Multi-media and some type of Office suite (Word processing, presentation software, possibly a database system andf a spreadsheet).

Other specialized stuff such as Photoshop people don't mind installing later but they want their base system to be more or less complete.

Now with Vista the user has got to decide on a lot of separate packages etc and this is not going to be at all popular and more than likely be totally confusing as well.

Can you imagine going into your friendly neighbourhood store and asking the sales person "What version of Vista should I have". They won't know but will probably try and sell you "An Extended Warranty" which will cost more than the product itself.

Most Linux distros are also trying to present base desktop suitable packages and on the whole succeeding in spite of some obvious limitations in the multi-media area.

Of course as typical Linux users we are much more used to searching for and installing extra or alternative packages but if you look at almost ANY current distro then are all trying to put together a base desktop GUI that will make a reasonable M$ alternative suitable for the masses and IMO are finally on the point of succeeding.

Paying 700 USD for the next version of "Windows" is likely to give a great "push" for users wabnting a cheaper solution. If Linux can rise to the challenge then it's worth going through a few alphas and betas to get things like XGL to work properly.

If you want a stable production version there's nothing wrong in staying with SUSE PRO 9/9.1/9.2 or use one of the various "Enterprise" systems out there.

I for one don't mind trying out betas --and remember they are BETAS so expect some things not to work because in the end we'll ALL benefit.

Without testers it's almost impossible for anybody to test all the possible combinations of hardware that exist out there now.

So if you don't like betas or expect it to work like a production system don't try it, or if you DO try it and some things don't work as expected then just report what doesn't work (that's what the Bugzilla system is for) and either get round the problem or wait until the problem has been fixed.

Sorry for the long post but I do get quite irritated when I see the sheere volume of complaints when people are runing BETAS or espicially ALPHAS which usually are in the early stages of development where bugs are likely to occur.

Cheers
-K

I found an article at OSnews.com : An Inside Look at Windows Vista
-some random facts about aero and other chitchat...

BTW MS just released info that consumer VISTA will be released in January 2007, so TIGER if you want to compare Suse and Vista, you can do that with suse 10.2. or even with suse 11.

I'm not sure if as "an ordinary user" I want a 3-D type of desktop. Others will I'm sure but most of my work is with Photography, Imaging and some type of publishing.

For Photography a true and accurate LARGE SIZE monitor is more important than any 3-D graphics rendering and the best desktop you can have for this believe it or not is for most people a "Boring Monochrome light grey" background.

I'm a professional photographer by trade and over the years have found this to be true.

I know a lot of youngsters like "snazzy" desktops and wall papers reminding me of old album covers like Iron Maiden etc and these will sell a lot of high end 3-D graphics cards but around 90% of computers out there are used for basically simple things like Email, surfing the Internet, some sort of multi-media - especially music playing and some type of word processing and spread sheets.

If you are a gamer a dedicated machine for this purpose would be a far better bet than adapting a General Purpose machine, and if there are 2 things I would value over ANY OTHER "improvement" would be

1) Get the SECURITY fixed --we shouldn't have to install 3rd party anti-virus software. If the OS was designed properly it would be almost impossible to infect it. How many times have you EVER heard of viruses effecting IBM's mainframe OS's MVS/370 or MVS/390. The security basically works by totally separating the kernel(OS) from the application layer and you can only execute Kernel type modules if you are "Kernel Authorised" which is set by a hardware key (for old IBM'ers out there the PSW or Program Status Word). Any call to the OS had to be done via an SVC routine (Supervisor Call which is equivalent to calling a Kernel function) and this went through zillions of authorisation checks before the call would be honoured.

No direct hardware calls were allowed unless done via the OS so infecting disk sectors etc just wasn't possible.

2) Get some DECENT E-MAIL ANTI SPAM software as well.

Running a business now I've more or less given up on email (strange but true). We've gone back to "Old Fashioned Fax" which can be done over the Internet avoiding phone call costs.


I'm very optimistic in the future of Linux.

We for one are not going to buy 20 copies of Vista @ 700 USD each.

Cheers

-K

Windows Vista will be delayed to 2007, the latest news said!

Tiger, that is what I posted before...

Now the real question is which one will be the first to hit the stores
Duke Nukem Forever or Microsoft Vista?

Now back to the topic. The new package manager is actually working with beta8. Don't know about online updates, because there is none, but in general its working as it should be.

One fine imporovement can be seen here : Web interface of updates

Documentation about the new beast has also been published: LibZypp
GREAT NAMING GUYS

Something about new features:

Package manager can now handle different types of repositories.
-YUM metadata
-YaST sources
-Zenworks Server
-OpenCarpet Server
-Red Carpet Enterprise Server

Replaced Programs With New Packagemanager:
-susewatcher has been replaced by zen-updater
-YOU (Yast Online Update) has been replaced by zen-updater and web-updater
-automatic update (yast2 online_update in cron) has been replaced by 'rug'

Next Friday we are supposed to get 10.1 RC1

Do u think Vista looks Great?

http://www.flexbeta.net/main/comment...shownews=18760

Originally Posted by onjoo Now back to the topic. The new package manager is actually working with beta8. Don't know about online updates, because there is none, but in general its working as it should be. One fine imporovement can be seen here : Web interface of updates Documentation about the new beast has also been published: LibZypp GREAT NAMING GUYS Something about new features: Package manager can now handle different types of repositories. -YUM metadata -YaST sources -Zenworks Server -OpenCarpet Server -Red Carpet Enterprise Server Replaced Programs With New Packagemanager: -susewatcher has been replaced by zen-updater -YOU (Yast Online Update) has been replaced by zen-updater and web-updater -automatic update (yast2 online_update in cron) has been replaced by 'rug'

OK guys then HOW do you install new software. I CAN'T get YAST to work when installing RPM's that are NOT on the set of CD's burned from Beta 8.

Beta 8 INSTALLS OK but when you try and add software with YAST afterwards is when it fails at least on my system and I've downloaded the set of CD's from 2 totally different mirrors.

Cheers

-K