There's only one way to find out which is a better editor... show some videos of a code wizard getting the job done faster.

If it took a code wizard 400 years to learn emacs, and he beat the guy using editplus in windows say.... then he has the disadvantage of taking the time to learn it; 400 years .. But if he is going to live to 100 more years, and he has several projects to do, this will make life much more fun, and much more satisfying.

If it took a codewizard 5 days to learn almost every function in editplus, and the code wizard got his job done slightly slower than in emacs... then it would be better to use editplus, since humans don't live 400 years.

However, if it took only 10 days to learn emacs, and the wizard got the job done faster, then fine.. those 5 days extra were worth it.

Of course, it would depend on what your deadlines are too... if you had 7 days, the emacs would have to be learned another time, because you only have 7 days, not 10.

Sometimes, different tools can be used for different jobs. Maybe small jobs can be done in notepad, but i rarely use notepad.. I always only use notepad if I don't want to clog up my CPU power, and i just want to read a 5 line file or a 5 line readme file.. because editplus takes about four times as much CPU power than notepad, and not just that.. memory etc. But when you load up editplus for the day, those extra CPU load and memory doesn't matter.. different tools for different jobs.

So thinking with "the right tools for the right job" let's see some videos of some wizards using text editors, and let's see what magnificent things can be done with different editors, preferably emacs.
I don't think just posting messages on a forum is the way to resolve whether a program is crap or not. I think we need videos or real stats.

I mean if there was some movie out in the theatres about how a code wizard completed a 600 page website in 3 hours, using emacs, and some other person took 6 hours to make a similar 600 page website using VI, and then some other person took 700 hours using notepad... then we'd all see the general trend.

Like using visual basic: sometimes, if you just need a really fast tool, and you want to get something done really really fast, this is more efficient than using visual C.

Sometimes, people just use editors to be snobs. Many times, people will fire up a linux distrib, and really all they do is go onto IRC and talk about their elite MP3z that they own. Sometimes people will fire up linux and make it extremely useful, say an automated answering system that takes up 50 percent as much CPU load as a windows system.. there are all these "right tool for the right job" situations, and sometimes it is hard to know really if you need or need not to invest your time in a tool: but if we had some actual proof that one editor made so and so project faster than so and so project, it would help.

I personally would use emacs if I saw some video of a PRACTICAL REAL WORLD EXAMPLE being done FASTER in emacs than another editor... if I had 600 pages to get organized (an FAQ for some website), you can bet that I WILL feel really satisfied, if I made that web page in half as much time, just because of my editor. ON the other hand, if it is just a farce, and in fact there's only a SMALL amount of time saved, or the ere is no time saved... well this would determine whether it is worth investing time.

Real world examples are perfect. Many times I find myself in the position where i KNOW for sure that I will save TONS of time, or TONS of money, if I learn which tools fix what on a car. If you have a set of pliers and you are trying to get a nut off, SURE you can get it off, if you are just doing this task once.. but if you have 600 nuts to get off, a wrench will do the job better, and you are advised to learn how to use a wrench since it in fact will save you hours of time (in this case, learning how to use a wrench is not an issue, in fact the advantages of a wrench are twofold: less complicated than pliers, easier to use).

SO in fact it could be that there is a less complicated editor and easier to use editor than emacs - and this editor gets 600 pages done faster.
I don't know. But we need to prove something with REAL world examples or stats . That is why we have website stats.. they are useful sometimes, but sometimes they aren't. But they are stats, on paper, there is no guessing or "opinions" on whether you website is getting hits or not. SO there must be some contests or proof that we can perform to find real world examples on when emacs is useful and when it is not.

Many times I find myself opening up editplus accidentally, when I wanted only notepad.. for small files like really short readme's.. this would be like opening up emacs just to change an etc/pswd file. But if you already have emacs loaded and open, it's ok.. just the same is if I already have editplus open... it's all about what situation you are in, and the right tools for the job, and the right time, in certain situations.
Proof helps significantly. Show us some proof that Joe A got a 600 page project done X hours faster using Emacs than Joe B who got a project done Y hours slower using Vi or editplus.
Then, find the exact opposite result... then study the projects and see which editor applies better for what types of projects. There are trends.. there are, you need some paper proof... I know that on paper it is faster to open up notepad for a small readme file with 5 lines in it, but I KNOW that also it is better to open up editplus in windows if I have a UNIX file that is really big and is in PHP format. On paper, it proves that different tools are more efficient for different jobs in different situations. The open dialog box in notepad is much more inefficient than a side panel file browser in editplus... but only if you are editing a large website or lots of files, and you need to search directories, etc.

There are situations where programs with a LOT of features actually load FASTER than programs with SH*T features. There are programs that are easier to use that get the job done faster than programs which are harder to use, even in complex situations. Let's take total commander as an example. This program loads SUPER fast, and has about 100 different uses.. going as far as reading PDF files.. it does ALL THESE things FASTER than explorer, and it has way more features than explorer. It is easier to use, since it doesn't swizzle the hard drive every few seconds like explorer, and it has two panels. So it is easier to use, faster to load, and gets the job done faster .These programs are the DIAMONDs of programs. If editplus opened FASTER than notepad did, that would make my day.

So if you had an editor that was easy to use, loaded faster, AND got the job done faster, it would be better in all areas. Most of the time this is not the case; you usually have to sacrifice something. When you have to sacrifice something, you must study WHAT job the tool is for and when to use it.. so what jobs can be done faster in emacs.. I know for sure that their text based browser is NOT efficient - if it was fast, that would be great. But in order to study whether or not Emacs is useful, or Vi is useful, i need to see some sexy movie or some MPEG showing a code wizard getting a 600 page website project done much faster than some user on windows using edit plus... if there are different situations in which editplus can get the job done faster, and emacs can get the job done faster, fine. But we need to analyze and look at which tool is better for what situation. I know for sure on paper than I can whip up total commander and get my FTP files uploaded, open a bunch of programs, open some pdf files, copy some files, etc. faster than if I open up 5 different tools to do all those jobs (acrobat, an ftp program, and explorer). Sometimes jack of all trades tools ARE masters in a significant amount of their combined tools. Emacs text based browser is slow, it is not good ... if it was, fine, then it would be a jack of all trades tool. If I was asked to prove this on paper, I could - i could prove that if I needed on some day, to ftp some files, open some pdf, and copy some files, etc. that the right tool for the job would be ttlcmder... compared to using 5 different masters.

When and where can we find some real proof that there are codewizards out there getting some real interesting projects done in less time, or in a more beneficial way using editor X in comparison to editor Y? Someone has to step up to the plate and show off the advantages of the editors. I would prefer to buy a special screwdriver tool from the tool store if I saw some movie showing the benefits of it in certain situations, or i had real world experience in using the tool and i could prove that it was faster in certain situations.. i wouldn't buy it if i just heard someone talking about it in a web forum! i would just argue with them and tell them that a screwdriver is better! Maybe in certain situations.. maybe not, maybe in all situations the screwdriver was not beneficial at all.

why won't this thread DIE..ARRGHH!!

are you 14 and a half years old

it was a joke bro..and i wish i was that young and was interested in the things i am now...but that's neither here nor there..

Bump.

Sorry, couldn't resist. I love editor wars. Long may they continue!

Pointy.

P.S. Emacs for president!

If you want to know if an editor is good or not...

Its simple....

Look at the clones.

If there are no clones... its for a reason.

Where are the EMACS clones?

They dont exist. End of Discussion!!!!

jEdit - use it and love it.
http://www.jedit.org/

They don't exists because EMACS is SOOO perfect that no one needs to try to make it "better".

However, I think "kate" is the best editor EVER!

vim, pwns and cures the common cold.

Vim is the best. Period.

elvis is not dead !

>> They don't exists because EMACS is SOOO perfect that no one needs to try to make it "better".


If only this were true...

Alas...

As they saying goes.... Imitation is the best form of flattery...

There are few other places where this statement is as true as it is with computer software.

It cannot die as we all deep down love a good "text editor holy war" thread. If we didn't like it, we should have not clicked on the link to the thread, right?

Have you finished working on you fantasy text editor yet? Have you taking any action to contribute to Vi, Emacs, Joe, or BlueFish to make them any better in your opinion? This thread has been going since last October and I have seen nothing but complaint after complaint from you. Maybe if you spent less time complaining and put that energy into coding you could have been finished with your version of a good text editor by now. Now get coding!