ANNOYING FREEZES: Happens on multiple distributions on multiple computers.

craigevil · 02-22-2009, 03:35 PM

On this crappy dell running sidux I have yet to have the system freeze. Nor on my other desktop that has via 1.4ghz cpu, nvidia 6200, 2gb ram. Not even on my Eee PC 701 running Debian Sid. So no this problem isn't affecting "everyone". I can't even remember the last time Iceweasel has crashed. Use the appropriate drivers, turn off any services/processes you do not need running and test your ram and you should have no problems.

System: Host craigevil Kernel 2.6.28-7.slh.1-sidux-686 i686 (32 bit) Distro sidux 2007-04.5 - Έρως christmas special - kde-full - (200712260138)
CPU: Single core Intel Pentium 4 (HT) cache 1024 KB flags (sse3 nx lm) bmips 5586.03
Clock Speeds: (1) 2793.015 MHz (2) 2793.015 MHz
Graphics: Card Intel 82915G/GV/910GL Integrated Graphics Controller X.Org 1.4.2 Res 1280x1024@60.0hz
Audio: Card Intel 82801FB/FBM/FR/FW/FRW (ICH6 Family) High Definition Audio Controller driver HDA Intel
Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Version 1.0.18rc3
Network: Card Intel 82562ET/EZ/GT/GZ - PRO/100 VE (LOM) Ethernet Controller driver e100 v: 3.5.23-k6-NAPI at port dcc0
Disks: HDD Total Size: 160.0GB (17.7% used) 1: /dev/sda WDC WD1600JS-75N 160.0GB
Partition: ID:/ size: 103G used: 27G (28%) ID: swap:/dev/sda4 size: 5.25GB
Info: Processes 96 Uptime 17:35 Memory 314.9/493.6MB Client Shell inxi 1.0.2

Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.0.6) Gecko/2009020409 Firefox/3.0.6 (Debian-3.0.6-1)

X -version
X.Org X Server 1.4.2
Release Date: 11 June 2008
X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0
Build Operating System: Linux Debian (xorg-server 2:1.4.2-11)
Current Operating System: Linux craigevil 2.6.28-7.slh.1-sidux-686 #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Feb 20 23:57:46 UTC 2009 i686
Build Date: 20 February 2009 03:06:29AM

CrashedAgain · 02-22-2009, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigevil

Use the appropriate drivers, turn off any services/processes you do not need running and test your ram and you should have no problems.

...I wish!!!

This is a new install of Debian Lenny done using Debian netinstall which I assume would have selected the proper drivers.
I cannot tell what the drivers are ...xorg.config only says "configured video device".

I have been using Linux for years and have never had a problem this bad...I have had applications chars but never before have had total system freezeup with no warning and no error messages.

.....nobody said it was affecting "everyone" but there are certainly others (currently there is a similar thread in the Slackware forums.)

Maybe it's ram related...then why would editing xorg.conf have any effect at all?

i92guboj · 02-22-2009, 04:26 PM

You make quite a lot of weird assumptions, which is the best way to hide the real problem. :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by KommanderKaos

Symptoms
---------
When using any memory intensive program, such as Firefox 3, VLC, gnash, etc. the operating system complete freezes. It will not respond to keyboard, mouse, or SysRq commands; the screen just shows what was on it prior to the freeze. Waiting also is fruitless, the freeze was still present after 32 hours. The crash doesn't occur when the computer is completely idle with just Gnome or KDE running. The crashes seem to happen quicker when using Firefox 3, however the issue still happens with VLC and Firefox 2, so it's not related to these programs.

For what you say, it's very probable that your problem is related to defective hardware.

Quote:

Possible Resolutions Used
-------------------------
On all these systems, the memory has been tested with Memtest86+ and has passed with no errors. Also the boot parameters nolapic, noapic, acpi=off, noapm do not help the issue, as all of them have been tried alone and together, in all possible combinations.

Note that memtest86 is not infallible.

Quote:

The error is present in the 2.6.24 kernels and up, however I don't think it's kernel related as there's nothing useful in the log.

That's quite an assumption. Lockups are unpredictable. There's no guarantee that the system can log anything at all if it can't even respond to sysrq combos.

Quote:

For some reason certain webpages cause the freeze more often then others in Firefox 3. I've found this page: http://sites.target.com/site/en/corp...d=PRD03-002477, to cause it almost always. As stated above, this is not the only webpage and Firefox 3 is not the only program that causes the error.

If a memory cell is defective, the system will fail whenever it tries to access that portion of the ram, so, the bigger the program you run, the greater chance to trigger the problem. Firefox is a very big and memory intensive critter, and so is flash (that also wastes an horrid amount of cpu time). That site you linked has flash stuff on it. You could try to use flashblock or noscript for firefox to remove the flash contents you don't wanna see.

Quote:

I'm thinking it's some small package that nobody's thought to check, as there are no errors in the system log (Kernel, XOrg, etc) or anything. It's not related to a graphics card as many seem to conclude, due to all the drivers reproducing similar errors and the fact that the systems where working fine up until new updates where released.

You can always try to reproduce it on an older distro, and see if that works. Note that you might need to do some extra work in such distros, because the ram usage will probably be much lower by default. Hardware problems can arise at any time, you know, things break. The fact that it worked witout problems two months ago doesn't mean a thing.

For example, if all the machines are on the same electrical net, a current peak could have fried them all in a row. It wouldn't be the first time, and it won't be the last either. Ram is specially sensible in this regard.

I can't be sure if your problem is hardware or software related, I just say that you shouldn't discard the things so fast. 99% of the times, these problems are due to defective hardware, and the rest of the times, they are due to either buggy kernel patchsets and/or buggy drivers. Userland programs shouldn't be capable of hanging your system unless the kernel provides a way to screw themselves up. At most, a buggy app on a stable kernel will only be able to interfere with other userland programs, but it should not be able to freeze your kernel.

CrashedAgain · 02-22-2009, 04:52 PM

i92guboj....I know your comments are not aimed at my posts since it is not my posting that you quoted, however there are some comments I would like to add. First, it is not likely that it is power surge related, since KommanderKos is in Virginia and I am in Canada...it is not likely that these widely separated regions would be regularly hit with power surges....nor is it likely that a power surge would consistently hit on at least six different occasions just when I am trying to copy a certain dvd. I have tried without success to reproduce the bug on my older systems. I have also tried to downgrade my system to older spec..so far I keep getting configuration problems.
So far all I have found out is that editing the xorg.cong file made a differeince as did upgrading the kernel; although neither actually solved the problem.
There is another thread about the same (or similar) problem...http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...1/#post3453480

i92guboj · 02-22-2009, 04:56 PM

CrashedAgain, I see. Just a wild shot: did you try a vanilla kernel? Maybe it's some kind of problem with a custom patchset that your distribution packagers added. You seem to have tried many graphics drivers, so I assume that that's not it. However, it might also be worth to check if you use some kind of experimental drivers or something like that. Experimental file systems, framebuffer drivers, ndiswrapper stuff, and things like that.

craigevil · 02-22-2009, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrashedAgain

...I wish!!!

This is a new install of Debian Lenny done using Debian netinstall which I assume would have selected the proper drivers.
I cannot tell what the drivers are ...xorg.config only says "configured video device".

I have been using Linux for years and have never had a problem this bad...I have had applications chars but never before have had total system freezeup with no warning and no error messages.

.....nobody said it was affecting "everyone" but there are certainly others (currently there is a similar thread in the Slackware forums.)

Maybe it's ram related...then why would editing xorg.conf have any effect at all?

No debian doesnt install the video drivers especially if you are using nvidia or ati, you have to do that yourself. The newer xorg tries to do it automagically but doesn't always succeed.

CrashedAgain · 02-22-2009, 05:45 PM

Started out with the 2.6.26 kernel that comes with the Debian Lenny distro. Not sure what video driver I'm using...latest Debian Lenny xorg setup xorg.cofg just says "configured video driver" instead of actually listing it. I'm still using the original install video driver (whatever it is) because I'm not sure how to change it. (It was KommanderKaos who tried several video drivers). This is something new...it used to be possible to specify the video driver.
Tried to downgrade to 2.6.24 kernel but it wouldn't run...I've forgotten what the problem was. Successfully upgraded to 2.6.28 kernel...seemed to be an improvement but still froze up.
All my installs are done with Debian packages...except for ndiswrapper but the problem was occurring both before and after installing ndiswrapper.
I have also tried installing Debian etch (2006 issue, 2.6.16 kernel). I got the system up & running but couldn't install k9copy because I didn't have the right sources in sources.list Apparently my usual source (yorku.ca) conforms to US wishes and does not distribute k9copy. By the time I got the right source installed, I had changed the ethernet card and gone back to a PS2 mouse instead of a usb one and the system as installed was unable to find the new hardware so I had neither internet nor mouse functioning.
I also tried "cloning" (basically a straight copy) the Debian etch system from my other computer but that isn't working yet. Immediate problem is that /dev did not fill so it won't start. I don't have real high hopes for success with this as there are quite a few differences between the two systems.
Probably I will try installing an old Kanotix system next as I'm pretty sure it will install OK. Even if it does install and work without freezups, all that will indicate is that somewhere in the last couple of years somebody made some change (xorg seems the most likely culprit) that can cause system lockups on certain hardware combinations under certain circumstances, it's still probably going to be very difficult to pin down.

CrashedAgain · 02-22-2009, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigevil

No debian doesnt install the video drivers especially if you are using nvidia or ati, you have to do that yourself. The newer xorg tries to do it automagically but doesn't always succeed.

Vid card is ATI, and yes, Debian does install video drivers...or lets xorg choose the video driver. The currently installed driver was installed as part of the Debian installation and I did not choose it. Maybe it's the right one, maybe it's not, I don't know...but it seems to be correct, the video looks correct.

CrashedAgain · 02-23-2009, 01:37 PM

Installed Kanotix 2006-01-Rc3, then apt-get install k9copy so I could attempt a copy from my "test DVD".
Installing k9copy required a lot of other upgrades and in the process of upgrading it froze again.
So it appears it probably must be a hardware failure of some sort since there is very little in common between the latest Lenny and a 3 year old Kanotix system.

mrclisdue · 02-23-2009, 01:40 PM

With my system, the problem occurred with a fresh install of Slackware 12.2, even though the system ran fine with 12.1.

Also, it had nothing to do with X, as the system froze when X wasn't involved.

I've tried everything I could think of, plus anything relevant indicated in this thread, but to no avail. So, I'm reverting to 12.1.

cheers,

CrashedAgain · 02-23-2009, 01:51 PM

What hardware are you using?
lspci reports my video card as
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV350 AP [Radeon 9600]
01:00.1 Display controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV350 AP [Radeon 9600] (Secondary)

2 HD's: Samsung 112G SATA HD (model SP1213C I think) and also an old 4 G IDE drive that I use to put automatic backups on.
full output of lspci just in case there are any clues there:

Code:

crashedagain@P4:~$ lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] 655 Host (rev 50)
00:01.0 PCI bridge: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] SiS AGP Port (virtual PCI-to-PCI bridge)
00:02.0 ISA bridge: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] SiS964 [MuTIOL Media IO] (rev 36)
00:02.5 IDE interface: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] 5513 [IDE] (rev 01)
00:02.7 Multimedia audio controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] AC'97 Sound Controller (rev a0)
00:03.0 USB Controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] USB 1.1 Controller (rev 0f)
00:03.1 USB Controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] USB 1.1 Controller (rev 0f)
00:03.2 USB Controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] USB 1.1 Controller (rev 0f)
00:03.3 USB Controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] USB 2.0 Controller
00:04.0 Ethernet controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] SiS900 PCI Fast Ethernet (rev 90)
00:05.0 RAID bus controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] RAID bus controller 180 SATA/PATA  [SiS] (rev 01)
00:0a.0 Multimedia audio controller: Creative Labs SB Audigy (rev 04)
00:0a.1 Input device controller: Creative Labs SB Audigy Game Port (rev 04)
00:0a.2 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Creative Labs SB Audigy FireWire Port (rev 04)
00:0b.0 Multimedia video controller: Conexant CX23880/1/2/3 PCI Video and Audio Decoder (rev 05)
00:0d.0 Communication controller: Conexant Device 2f12 (rev 01)
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV350 AP [Radeon 9600]
01:00.1 Display controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV350 AP [Radeon 9600] (Secondary)
crashedagain@P4:~$

mrclisdue · 02-23-2009, 02:36 PM

Code:

 /sbin/lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 440BX/ZX/DX - 82443BX/ZX/DX Host bridge (rev 03)
00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 440BX/ZX/DX - 82443BX/ZX/DX AGP bridge (rev 03)
00:07.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ISA (rev 02)
00:07.1 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 IDE (rev 01)
00:07.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 USB (rev 01)
00:07.3 Bridge: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ACPI (rev 02)
00:0d.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR2413 802.11bg NIC (rev 01)
00:11.0 Ethernet controller: 3Com Corporation 3c905B 100BaseTX [Cyclone] (rev 24)
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc 3D Rage Pro AGP 1X/2X (rev 5c)