LinuxQuestions.org
Help answer threads with 0 replies.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Newbie
User Name
Password
Linux - Newbie This Linux forum is for members that are new to Linux.
Just starting out and have a question? If it is not in the man pages or the how-to's this is the place!

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 06-01-2015, 12:26 PM   #1
muskieslime
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Jun 2015
Posts: 2

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
to PAE or not to PAE?


I am wanting to try either ubuntu 14 or zorin 9 on an older thinkpad. I had a copy of 12.04 on cd and plugged it in, it works on my pc, and it told me i needed a distro for my processor non pae? where or how do I find a download for non pae?
 
Old 06-01-2015, 12:31 PM   #2
suicidaleggroll
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Nov 2010
Location: Colorado
Distribution: OpenSUSE, CentOS
Posts: 5,258

Rep: Reputation: 1947Reputation: 1947Reputation: 1947Reputation: 1947Reputation: 1947Reputation: 1947Reputation: 1947Reputation: 1947Reputation: 1947Reputation: 1947Reputation: 1947
Very few modern distros have non-pae kernels available these days. I know Debian does, you can start there.
 
Old 06-01-2015, 03:16 PM   #3
beachboy2
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Wild West Wales, UK
Distribution: Ubuntu MATE, Mint MATE & antiX MX-15
Posts: 1,664
Blog Entries: 5

Rep: Reputation: 562Reputation: 562Reputation: 562Reputation: 562Reputation: 562Reputation: 562
muskieslime,

Scroll down to antiX MX-14 non-pae:

http://www.mepiscommunity.org/download-links
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 06-02-2015, 12:12 PM   #4
DavidMcCann
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jul 2006
Location: London
Distribution: CentOS, Salix
Posts: 4,162

Rep: Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223
Are you sure you need a non-pae distro? I have an old Thinkpad (IBM, not Lenovo) and that runs a normal distro. Which model do you have, and what CPU model does it use?
 
Old 06-02-2015, 01:35 PM   #5
EDDY1
LQ Addict
 
Registered: Mar 2010
Location: Oakland,Ca
Distribution: wins7, Debian wheezy
Posts: 6,838

Rep: Reputation: 649Reputation: 649Reputation: 649Reputation: 649Reputation: 649Reputation: 649
You can install debian & use the i486 kernel which is non-pae.
 
Old 06-02-2015, 04:35 PM   #6
SCSIraidGURU
Member
 
Registered: Oct 2014
Posts: 69

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
PAE was a way 32-bit apps could use 3GB of RAM on older hardware. Few applications really support PAE properly or even use 2GB of RAM. You really don't need to worry about PAE. I built my Ubuntu box for under $200 with 64-bit Intel dual core in it. Wouldn't you be better off upgrading the hardware to something newer than playing with a 32-bit box? Check a local computer store for used hardware that might work better than getting a non-PAE version.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 06-02-2015, 04:45 PM   #7
suicidaleggroll
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Nov 2010
Location: Colorado
Distribution: OpenSUSE, CentOS
Posts: 5,258

Rep: Reputation: 1947Reputation: 1947Reputation: 1947Reputation: 1947Reputation: 1947Reputation: 1947Reputation: 1947Reputation: 1947Reputation: 1947Reputation: 1947Reputation: 1947
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCSIraidGURU View Post
PAE was a way 32-bit apps could use 3GB of RAM on older hardware. Few applications really support PAE properly or even use 2GB of RAM. You really don't need to worry about PAE.
Wha???

PAE has nothing to do with applications. It's a way for a 32-bit OS to access more than 4 GB of RAM on newer hardware (the processor has to support it). His processor does not support it, so he does need to worry about PAE. He needs to find an OS that includes a non-PAE kernel, or he can't use that computer.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 06-02-2015, 05:33 PM   #8
SCSIraidGURU
Member
 
Registered: Oct 2014
Posts: 69

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
I used PAE on 486 boxes in the past so applications can use 3GB of RAM on XP. /PAE allowed PAE capable applications like CAD use 3GB of RAM instead of the standard 2GB. /PAE was used before 64-bit OS. It was the replacement to expanded memory cards or LIM (Lotus Intel Microsoft) memory cards of the 1980s. AutoCAD was one of the first applications that used and fully support PAE. I have had every CPU since the IBM 4.77 MHz 8 bit XT.

My other suggestion of buying newer used hardware or new hardware is a better solution that playing with older hardware.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 06-03-2015, 05:04 AM   #9
TobiSGD
Moderator
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Germany
Distribution: Whatever fits the task best
Posts: 17,130
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCSIraidGURU View Post
I used PAE on 486 boxes in the past so applications can use 3GB of RAM on XP. /PAE allowed PAE capable applications like CAD use 3GB of RAM instead of the standard 2GB. /PAE was used before 64-bit OS. It was the replacement to expanded memory cards or LIM (Lotus Intel Microsoft) memory cards of the 1980s. AutoCAD was one of the first applications that used and fully support PAE. I have had every CPU since the IBM 4.77 MHz 8 bit XT.

My other suggestion of buying newer used hardware or new hardware is a better solution that playing with older hardware.
I think you are mixing up terms here. This is the PAE we speak about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension
It has nothing to do with how much memory applications can access, but describes a way for 32 bit systems to address more than 4GB of total memory.
On Windows (32 bit, of course) using the /PAE switch forces the system to use a PAE kernel, being able to use PAE in the function described above. Windows also knows the /3GB switch for applications, which enables applications that have the IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE flag set in the process header to access 3GB of RAM instead of the usual 2GB on 32 bit Windows systems, but this is not related to PAE.
PAE is also not related to hardware memory expansions.

Sidenote: The original IBM XT used the Intel 8088 CPU, which is a 16 bit CPU, despite its 8 bit databus.
 
Old 06-03-2015, 12:01 PM   #10
DavidMcCann
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jul 2006
Location: London
Distribution: CentOS, Salix
Posts: 4,162

Rep: Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223
PAE is a way to enable access to more memory, but the point at issue here is that a kernel compiled to run on a PAE-compliant CPU will not run on a CPU that is not PAE-compliant.

A quick check at http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkWiki shows that the pae-enabled OBM models are T43, R52, X32, and Z61. Any earlier numbers in those series need a non-pae kernel. Later series like SL and W are fine.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 06-03-2015, 01:57 PM   #11
aguador
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Sep 2014
Location: Madrid, Spain
Distribution: Manjaro, Mageia
Posts: 28

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
I do not understand the confusion about PAE. The question is whether or not the CPU or the system have the PAE feature enabled. Manufactures started enabling the feature around 2004, but many systems, including the one I am using for this reply does NOT have a PAE capability (running Manjaro).

That said, many *buntus (including Linux Mint) no longer offer non-PAE options. Mint, for example, urges an install with a "--force pae" option. However, as far as I know that is NOT guaranteed to work.

Since I assume that the poster would like to stay within the *buntu family, two options come to mind. The one I would try is LXLE (http://lxle.net/). It is Lubuntu-based but set up superbly to be easy to use, pretty and, as I recall, offers options of setting the interface to resemble Windows or OX-X if desired. I tend to avoid *buntus, but this one is just really great for older, low powered systems. There is a good review of the penultimate 32-bit release of LXLE here: http://mylinuxexplore.blogspot.com.e...more-than.html

A different take is the 3.0 "legacy" version of Bodhi Linux (http://www.bodhilinux.com/). It is the E17 desktop wed to Ubuntu. The interface is different (but the one some of us really like) and the community appears to be very good.

Both are good *buntu alternatives, LXLE for a more traditional desktop, Bodhi for a great-looking and performing system, but a bit more work to set up. Both, of course, can be run Live.

Last edited by aguador; 06-03-2015 at 02:01 PM.
 
Old 06-03-2015, 02:12 PM   #12
SCSIraidGURU
Member
 
Registered: Oct 2014
Posts: 69

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
PAE is old technology for 32-bit hardware. It allowed us to have 8GB of RAM on a 80486 for applications like AutoCAD to use 3GB instead of 2GB. It circumvented the 3.2GB limits of 80486 computers in the 80s. Once you loaded a high end video adapter and it wrote its memory address to the hardware. You could never get more than 3.2 GB available out of 4GB. PAE allowed our applications to address above the 4GB mark to be able to access up to 3GB of RAM. Once we switched to 64-bit OS and applications it solved the problem. PAE capable apps crashes a lot. We were glad when 64-bit came under XP 64. It would sandbox our 32-bit apps and when they became 64-bit sped everything up and stopped all the paging.

I have seen deals on 64-bit CPU/motherboard with 8GB of RAM for under $130 at Microcenter and online. Why play with old, slow hardware and worry about non-PAE vs. PAE?
 
Old 06-03-2015, 03:02 PM   #13
TobiSGD
Moderator
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Germany
Distribution: Whatever fits the task best
Posts: 17,130
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCSIraidGURU View Post
PAE is old technology for 32-bit hardware. It allowed us to have 8GB of RAM on a 80486 for applications like AutoCAD to use 3GB instead of 2GB. It circumvented the 3.2GB limits of 80486 computers in the 80s. Once you loaded a high end video adapter and it wrote its memory address to the hardware. You could never get more than 3.2 GB available out of 4GB. PAE allowed our applications to address above the 4GB mark to be able to access up to 3GB of RAM. Once we switched to 64-bit OS and applications it solved the problem. PAE capable apps crashes a lot. We were glad when 64-bit came under XP 64. It would sandbox our 32-bit apps and when they became 64-bit sped everything up and stopped all the paging.
PAE is entirely a kernel thing and has nothing to do with applications whatsoever. Also, the /3GB switch for Windows is not related to PAE, but to how the NT kernel handles parting the applications memory between application and kernel space. Of course the kernel needs to be able to address more than 3GB of physical RAM to give 3GB free memory to a single application, but it doesn't matter at all if this is done using PAE or for example with running a 64 bit kernel. Of course, the /3GB switch is a Windows thing and does not apply to Linux at all, since the Linux kernel handles memory management different anyways.

So, again, PAE has nothing at all to do with applications, they don't see any difference, regardless if they run on a PAE or non-PAE kernel.

Quote:
I have seen deals on 64-bit CPU/motherboard with 8GB of RAM for under $130 at Microcenter and online. Why play with old, slow hardware and worry about non-PAE vs. PAE?
For many people 130$ is a buckload of money. Other people, including me, don't see why you would throw away a perfectly functioning machine when you can still use it for the task it is meant for, even if that includes the inconvenience to use a distro that offers a non-PAE kernel (or just roll one yourself).
 
Old 06-03-2015, 03:15 PM   #14
aguador
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Sep 2014
Location: Madrid, Spain
Distribution: Manjaro, Mageia
Posts: 28

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCSIraidGURU View Post
I have seen deals on 64-bit CPU/motherboard with 8GB of RAM for under $130 at Microcenter and online. Why play with old, slow hardware and worry about non-PAE vs. PAE?
Muskieslime has said that the hardware is an older ThinkPad. How will he/she change that motherboard on that laptop?

As far as questioning the utility of "old, slow hardware," I am running a 32-bit laptop as my main machine at present and it still performs 90% of what I do without any problems. Asking why I should scrap a functional system that still serves the specific uses I have for it given the rare metals, toxins and low percentage of the machine that will ever be recycled is just as valid a question. Now, are 64-bit systems faster? Sure -- and I suspect that Muskieslime knows that just as well as others reading this thread. However, neither why nor why not addresses the issue at hand.

The question was: Where/how can I get a non-PAE distro. At least 3-4 replies have pointed in that direction with Debian or Ubuntu-based distros.
 
Old 06-04-2015, 12:50 PM   #15
DavidMcCann
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jul 2006
Location: London
Distribution: CentOS, Salix
Posts: 4,162

Rep: Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223Reputation: 1223
Anyone who does need a non-pae distro should look at AntiX and (I believe) Black Lab or WattOS. It also seems that the normal kernel can be installed and run on non-pae CPUs if installed appropriately, in the case of Xubuntu and Lubuntu:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PAE
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[SOLVED] Any difference in CrunchBang pae or non-pae for 32-bit 1 GB laptop? LinusStallman Debian 4 08-26-2014 01:50 PM
Build driver failed in PAE platform with linux kernel 2.6.27.19-5-pae steven215 Programming 3 01-19-2014 06:11 PM
PAE or not to PAE? linus72 Linux - General 4 07-06-2010 11:45 AM
KERNEL PANIC: Cannot execute a PAE-enabled kernel on a PAE-less CPU! ovais370 Linux - Laptop and Netbook 7 10-13-2007 06:49 PM
pae shadowsa Linux - Hardware 11 04-17-2007 02:11 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:19 PM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration