LinuxQuestions.org
Visit Jeremy's Blog.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Newbie
User Name
Password
Linux - Newbie This Linux forum is for members that are new to Linux.
Just starting out and have a question? If it is not in the man pages or the how-to's this is the place!

Notices

Reply
 
Search this Thread
Old 12-01-2006, 12:11 PM   #1
cyberiapost
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2005
Location: 127.0.0.1
Distribution: slackware
Posts: 78

Rep: Reputation: 15
Linux package management ! how many??


.. how many different package management system are out there? am so confused.. where can i get a guide on how to use all these package management systems? i always get stuck somewhere when i start using linux..
 
Old 12-01-2006, 12:28 PM   #2
farslayer
Guru
 
Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Willoughby, Ohio
Distribution: linuxdebian
Posts: 7,232
Blog Entries: 5

Rep: Reputation: 189Reputation: 189
I would think there are 3 Main systems..

RPM based - Redhat Package Manager
Portage - Source based for Gentoo
APT - Debian based systems use APT which is actually a front end for the debian package (dpkg) system..


There are various front ends for these package managers if you know how ot use the base one the variations aren't so daunting.
 
Old 12-01-2006, 12:31 PM   #3
craigevil
Senior Member
 
Registered: Apr 2005
Location: OZ
Distribution: Debian Sid
Posts: 4,734
Blog Entries: 12

Rep: Reputation: 457Reputation: 457Reputation: 457Reputation: 457Reputation: 457
Package management system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
For binary packages

* dpkg, used originally by Debian GNU/Linux and now by other systems, uses the .deb format and was the first to have a widely known dependency resolution tool, Deb Installer, APT.
* fink, for Mac OS X, derives partially from dpkg/apt and partially from ports.
* The RPM Package Manager was created by Red Hat, and is now used by a number of other Linux distributions. RPM is the Linux Standard Base packaging format and is the base of a large number of additional tools, including apt4rpm, Red Hat's up2date, Mandriva's urpmi, SuSE's YaST and YUM, used by Fedora Core and Yellow Dog Linux.
* A simple tgz package system combines the standard tar and gzip. Used by Slackware Linux there are a few higher-level tools that use the same tgz packaging format, including: slapt-get, slackpkg and swaret.
* Pacman for Arch Linux uses pre-compiled binaries distributed in a tgz archive.
* Smart Package Manager

For installing from a recipe

* Portage and emerge are used by Gentoo Linux. They were inspired by the BSD ports system and use scripts called ebuilds to install software.
* A recipe file contains information on how to download, unpack, compile and install a package in GoboLinux distribution using its Compile tool.
Linux package formats - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
Linux package formats are the different file formats used to package software for various GNU/Linux distributions. There are three principal kinds of package:

* Binary packages
* Source packages
* Recipe packages

Examples

* deb Debian package, originally from Debian. Used by Debian derivatives like Knoppix and Ubuntu
* ebuild the file containing information on how to retrieve, compile, and install a package in Gentoo's Portage system using the command emerge. Typically these are source-primary installs, though binary packages can be installed in this fashion as well. Gentoo based distributions also use the ebuild system from the same Portage tree.
* klik klik aims to provide an easy way of getting software packages for most major distributions without the dependency problems so common in many other package formats.
* recipe the file containing information on how to download, unpack, compile and install a package in Gobo Linux distribution using its Compile tool. This system is similar to the Gentoo's Portage, but is more simplistic in design.
* RPM RPM Package Manager, originally from Red Hat, is now used by many other distributors as well
* src building the packages from source (often binary packages are provided in parallel on many systems).[citation needed]
* tgz or tar.gz standard tar + gzip, possibly with some extra control files used by Slackware and others, or sometimes when distributing very simple handmade packages.
* CNR stands for "click and run". It is a FREE software delivery service designed for Linspire users that makes it easy to install Linux software.
* Autopackage makes software installation on Linux easier. Autopackage let you install applications on any distribution, can automatically resolve dependencies but is not meant to replace rpm packages
LinuxPlanet - Tutorials - Linux Package Management: Keeping Up with the Times - Introduction to Package Types
http://linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/tutorials/4161/1/
 
Old 12-01-2006, 12:34 PM   #4
cyberiapost
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2005
Location: 127.0.0.1
Distribution: slackware
Posts: 78

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
thanks farslayer and craigevil...thanks a lot
 
Old 12-01-2006, 12:36 PM   #5
tuxrules
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago
Distribution: Slackware64 14.1
Posts: 1,141

Rep: Reputation: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberiapost
.. how many different package management system are out there? am so confused.. where can i get a guide on how to use all these package management systems? i always get stuck somewhere when i start using linux..
package managers are per distro so however many distro you use is the number of package managers you need to learn or be aware of. Apt, Yum, Yast and Pacman (used in Arch) come to mind immediately. Other distros may have some variations of these. First place to look is man page and then you can look at the web for comprehensive howto. I know Apt, Yum and Pacman have online howto. Google is your friend.

Here's one for apt

Here's one for Pacman

Tux,
 
Old 12-01-2006, 12:37 PM   #6
cyberiapost
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2005
Location: 127.0.0.1
Distribution: slackware
Posts: 78

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
which one is the best ?why is it so difficult for these people to make a standard single packaging format that works on different linux distros?
 
Old 12-01-2006, 12:46 PM   #7
matthewg42
Senior Member
 
Registered: Oct 2003
Location: UK
Distribution: Kubuntu 12.10 (using awesome wm though)
Posts: 3,530

Rep: Reputation: 63
Which package management system you have will depend on what distro you use. Many distros use one of a few common systems, although there are often multiple front ends to a given package management system.

This is rather frustrating for software vendors who wish to provide software on Linux systems. There have been attempts to rectify this situation by creating meta-package managers, but so far, no cigar.
 
Old 12-01-2006, 01:43 PM   #8
pixellany
LQ Veteran
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Annapolis, MD
Distribution: Arch/XFCE
Posts: 17,802

Rep: Reputation: 729Reputation: 729Reputation: 729Reputation: 729Reputation: 729Reputation: 729Reputation: 729
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberiapost
which one is the best ?why is it so difficult for these people to make a standard single packaging format that works on different linux distros?
Which car is the best?
Which computer is the best?
Which cereal is the best?
The best choice (for you)is very often the last one you try.

"These people"--to whom are you referring? Linux and Open Source is the product of many people--some of who communicate with each other, and some of who follow **some** standards. Mostly, however, it is all about choice.

All seriousness aside, the BEST package manager is Synaptic GUI for the apt/deb system. And that's the truth.....
 
Old 12-01-2006, 01:59 PM   #9
eerok
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Canada
Distribution: Mint, Debian
Posts: 168

Rep: Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberiapost
which one is the best ?why is it so difficult for these people to make a standard single packaging format that works on different linux distros?
Because the distros are, as you say, different. There are standards in gnu/linux distros, but they aren't restrictive to the point of making all distros identical, which is a good thing. The healthy evolution of things in the linux world arises from the freedom of variety and experimentation.

The baseline standard is the tar.gz source package.

You have to understand that the wide range of choices you get with linux are both natural and inevitable. For gross simplification arising from the elimination of choice and control, well, there are other os's for that.
 
Old 12-01-2006, 02:05 PM   #10
pixellany
LQ Veteran
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Annapolis, MD
Distribution: Arch/XFCE
Posts: 17,802

Rep: Reputation: 729Reputation: 729Reputation: 729Reputation: 729Reputation: 729Reputation: 729Reputation: 729
Quote:
The baseline standard is the tar.gz source package.
.tar.gz is not a package format---it is a combo of 2 file management formats.

*.tar, *.gz, or *.tar.gz can contain ANYTHING---rpms, debs, source code, your Christmas lists, photos, etc..........
 
Old 12-01-2006, 02:06 PM   #11
pixellany
LQ Veteran
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Annapolis, MD
Distribution: Arch/XFCE
Posts: 17,802

Rep: Reputation: 729Reputation: 729Reputation: 729Reputation: 729Reputation: 729Reputation: 729Reputation: 729
Quote:
For gross simplification arising from the elimination of choice and control, well, there are other os's for that.
For some reason, this makes me think of a new catch phrase:
Windows: The OS for people who don't know what an OS is and/or don't care.
 
Old 12-14-2006, 10:36 AM   #12
dconine
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Nov 2004
Location: WI
Distribution: SuSe
Posts: 14

Rep: Reputation: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixellany
For some reason, this makes me think of a new catch phrase:
Windows: The OS for people who don't know what an OS is and/or don't care.
The worst part of the truth about your statement is that it involves so-called Network Administrators who decide "who will go and who will stayyy".

In answer to the package question, I'm a semi-newbie (more or less), and it took me about 2 years to understand what the RPM means, what the terms "package" and "tarball" mean.
The linux community is great at helping, but not great at standardizing any concept of what really needs to be standardized yet. It takes time. Windows has had the 'all great and powerful' Bill of Oz to standardize for 20 years, yet they still can't control their own operating system's design.

Trying not to rant. Recent observation and frustrations tell me that the Smart package manager works in Suse, but you shouldn't be trying to use SuSe 10.1 at all. Wait until 10.2 or stay with something in the 9.x range for a while.
Yast under those packages works.
The new ZRM or whatever it's called (zen?) is apparently a clustertruck when tied to yast.

The most important thing is to not try and get the newest and best (unlike Windoze, where you are forced into upgrades for virus reasons), because it takes time to work out bugs in Linux through the community.
Once you have a stable system, don't monkey with it and it won't monkey with you.
Penguins like the weather just the way it is.
 
Old 12-14-2006, 11:02 PM   #13
farslayer
Guru
 
Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Willoughby, Ohio
Distribution: linuxdebian
Posts: 7,232
Blog Entries: 5

Rep: Reputation: 189Reputation: 189
Please don't use 'Windows' and 'Standards' in the same sentence. Those two concepts are diametrically opposed when it comes to Microsoft.

As someone who has been implementing and supporting Microsoft solutions since the DOS days it's very apparent that Microsoft only standardizes things long enough till the next version comes out and then file formats no longer work between basic applications like word processors.. and that's on the low end.

I'm doing my damnedest to escape the windows world at work and move to a position where it's only a minor player instead of a major pain in my side. I'd really like to escape before I have to worry about supporting their latest and greatest.

MS is a bad example for standards.

WGA problems anyone ? Oh yes there's a prefect update mechanism. [/sarcasm]

Familiarity with any product makes it seem like it's the better way of doing things, and in Linux all the different approaches have their cheerleaders. Whether it's portage, manual compile, rpm, apt, yast, urpmi whatever the package and/or mechanism. Truth be told they all have advantages and disadvantages. you just need to decide which ones fit you..

Personally I like living on the edge.. the edge in Linux has been more stable for me than new MS OS releases over the years, where the standard has become "don't move to the new version until at least SP1 or SP2 is out.. " Can't tell you how many times I have heard that from many an IT guy.

I use both OS's extensively so it's not like I'm making this up.

and in order to make this post somewhat on topic.. Personally I love the apt system used by Debian.
 
Old 12-14-2006, 11:08 PM   #14
DeusExLinux
Member
 
Registered: May 2004
Location: Tampa, Fl
Distribution: Arch
Posts: 648

Rep: Reputation: 30
When push comes to shove, you use the package manager that you like. That's the beauty of the GNU and open source community. You get to choose what you want to use. It tends to be a bit daunting for newbies in the beginning, but believe me, it gets much easier.

I've used RPM, Apt, Portage, and Pacman. (in various Red Hat, Debian, Gentoo, and Arch distros) I settled on Pacman ,but that's more to do with me loving the Arch distro. It really depends on how much you want to package manager to do, and if you want a gui for it or not. (there's a gui for pacman, I don't use it) Apt-get is a good standard to use (as is debian, or any of it's base derivatives). I didn't like the way it handled dependencies, and really like the way Pacman handles them.

My suggestion, as with everything, try them out. The only substitute for ignorance is experience. Have fun!
 
Old 12-15-2006, 11:14 AM   #15
dconine
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Nov 2004
Location: WI
Distribution: SuSe
Posts: 14

Rep: Reputation: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by farslayer
Please don't use 'Windows' and 'Standards' in the same sentence. Those two concepts are diametrically opposed when it comes to Microsoft.
snip
MS is a bad example for standards.
That was how I used it..I think. ;-)

Quote:
Familiarity with any product makes it seem like it's the better way of doing things, and in Linux all the different approaches have their cheerleaders. Whether it's portage, manual compile, rpm, apt, yast, urpmi whatever the package and/or mechanism. Truth be told they all have advantages and disadvantages. you just need to decide which ones fit you..

Personally I like living on the edge.. the edge in Linux has been more stable for me than new MS OS releases over the years, where the standard has become "don't move to the new version until at least SP1 or SP2 is out.. " Can't tell you how many times I have heard that from many an IT guy.

and in order to make this post somewhat on topic.. Personally I love the apt system used by Debian.
Thanks. Just by making the list in your response, you emphasize the problem very well. Living on the edge is great when you are young and can stay up all night with glazed eyeballs, but if Linux is going to become useful on a broader scale, it has to be useful to people who have other work to do than setting up computers. The whole point of a computer is to be a tool, not a toy. All this mucking about with the toolbox and the color of the chrome plating is killing the future.
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What Package Management do you Use? pengu Linux - General 23 09-23-2006 02:56 PM
LXer: Linux 101: Efficient software management with the Advanced Package Tool in Debian LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 08-13-2006 07:54 PM
Using Package Archive style package management mugwump84 Linux From Scratch 3 08-25-2005 06:19 PM
package management laydros Slackware 6 01-21-2005 07:43 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 PM.

Main Menu
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
identi.ca: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration