I want Linux but at the same time I don't. Just read and you'll understand.
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I want Linux but at the same time I don't. Just read and you'll understand.
I had linux on my comp a few months ago, but I recovered my computer and got rid of it, which was actually fine with me because it kind of just sat there and I had to choose XP or Slack every time I started the computer. Also Linux didn't work very well with my computer, as whenever I log out of a wm, my screen blanks out. I had linux installed on my recovery partition as well, and that wasn't very big. But anyway, enough of that. I have started to miss the alternative to the resource wasting XP desktop. But I don't really want linux on my system. I have heard of disks for booting into linux, would anyone recomend that, or if not, just convince me to get linux back.
I would also like something simpler than Slack because I don't need all the power it comes with.
Last edited by simeandrews; 08-20-2004 at 08:08 AM.
GNU/Linux is not for the faint of heart. If you just want to point and click and play some games, you should stick with Windoze.
Slackware is a Linux distribution for men wanting to "learn Linux," and not for boys wanting to play games. Slack is a good and powerful distro, but it doesn't come with gui installers and such that "do all the work for you." As my friend Tinkster told me, you have to "fight it to the blood."
On the other hand, there are distros like Mandrake which are designed more like Windoze, in that they have gui installers, and if you just know a little about your hardware you should be able to get it setup.
Each distribution of Linux is designed with different goals in mind, so they'll all work differently on the same hardware. From using Linux a little over a year, I've come to believe that if I want to continue to use Slackware, or advance with any GNU/Linux system, I must learn how Linux works, and forget the Windoze knowledge that I've obtained.
So, stick with Windoze if you don't have the time or desire to read (forever) and learn how your computer works, and how the *nix system works. But if you want to be FREE from the Micro$loth control over your computer, setup a dual-boot system. That way you can do what you want and need in Windoze while you learn about Linux. When you get to the point where you know enough about Linux to do everything there, you can remove the Windoze system and be FREE FOREVER!
Start by reading those first two links in my sig...and go from there.
I think it's a widespread misunderstanding that the GNU/Linux community, as a whole, is trying to "win over" as many souls as possible... Just by its philosophy, GNU/Linux will always fundamentally remain a "for geeks, by geeks" type of system.
So for people who have no need or desire to get their hands dirty getting to learn how computers and OSes work on the inside, it can be quite frustrating and Windoze may be a better choice...
The real tragedy is, those people that don't want to "get technical" and want to use PC hardware find themselves stuck with no alternatives than to use Micro$oft products! So they have to be willing/prepared to take all the abuse from Micro$oft that comes with the deal.
Only to find out that sooner or later their Windoze system chokes in its own puke and they have to "get technical" after all.
I agree that Linux is somewhat more technical the Window$, but there are several distro's out there that are suited to the newbie migrating from the other OS.
The school of thought that LInux is for guru's or tech freaks only is very pase and out dated. Sure, Slackware etc., is for the more experiences Linux user, but look at SuSE 9.1, Mandrake 10, Linspire, Xandros etc.
Ridiculing someone for wanting Linux but not for being technical is a reason that once was,but is no longer valid and gents, although i'm new here, i am no newbie to Linux or the Linux world at a corporate level. I advise you to rethink your stances and promote the migration to Linux as opposed to installing fear into newbies that would like to migrate.
This is by no means a personal attack and i presume it will not be recieved as one.
Simeandrews, you can go to the suse site and download SuSE 9.1 LiveCD. This will allow you to run a somewhat cut down version of SuSE 9.1 Personal off CDROM and your memory with no need to install.
It really wasn't my intention to make fun of anyone. I think it's a good thing that nowadays there are things like graphical installers, complete desktop enviromnents, etc. in GNU/Linux. And if it helps to make people choose our system, all the better. But these programs only constitute the top floor of the building... And because of their complexity, they are often more bug-prone then the simpler command-line tools.
But the real strength resides in the fact that, in any case, everything can still be done from the command line, where the real power shows. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a die-hard who'd even burn his cd's from the command line, but I like to know it's there.
My point being, to really get to grips with the full power of *NIX, you can't do without learning the shell, and *that's* where I believe the geekness starts...
In Windoze, when the desktop env. crashes, there's nothing to fall back to... Every technical detail is hidden from the user. In GNU/Linux, should KDE crash, there *is* a fallback: use the shell and fix it... but then you'd have to be a "geek" to a certain extent.
My final point: GNU/Linux just throws a lot more technical stuff at you, doesn't cover up the internals of your computer -- you can hide it if you want (using KDE or GNOME) but it's there and sooner or later you will be confronted with it. And users who are reluctant to "get technical" with their computer will feel at a loss at that moment. And this is never going to change because it will always stay the technically-inclined system it is now, even though much of it is hidden now by program suites like KDE and GNOME. These are nice programs and they help the GNU/Linux community a lot, but the (technically-inclined) shell will ALWAYS stay the native human-machine interface of any *NIX system.
Again, I didn't mean to offend or ridicule anyone, and thanks for making this a constructive debate, not another flamewar
I disagree with the sentiments in this thread that Linux is not for desktops and is for geeks only.
I use Gentoo Linux on my box. I play Unreal Tournament 2004, Neverwinter Nights and Quake 3. I sync my cellphone with Evolution via a bluetooth dongle. I do my books in Gnumeric, write in Abiword and do everything I would otherwise have done in Windows.
Now with the advent of such friendly distros as Mandrake and SuSe, a pretty ignorant user can install Mandrake (in fact, the installation of Mandrake is more intuitive and easier) and have most things configured out-of-the-box along with the Mandrake Control Centre which makes administering the system a piece of cake.
There will always be geek-only distros like Slackware, Gentoo and Debian, but the very nature of Linux means that anything is possible.
As for convincing you to use it again.... I honestly couldn't care less whether you do or don't - I'm not a M$ bashing Nazi - I just know what's best...
I realise I may have inadvertently scared off new / prospective users with what I said about that geeky stuff... But to them I'd say just DO IT get a cd and check it out, you'll notice soon enough if it's something for you or not! And it won't cost you much to try
And when you feel up to it there's always something else to learn... And when you don't, then don't. After using Win95 for 6 years I thought I knew everything about computers -- boy was I wrong!
So I say people, just do it, try it! Use one of them Live CDs and decide for yourself!
As Mandrake has already been mentioned as a very newbie friendly distro I suggest you try MandrakeMove, the liveCD version (eg no install required, but slower because it's using cd and ram), and then you can move on to installing Mandrake 10.0 Official, or 10.1 if it's out by then.
If you're really not used to using linux, maybe try OpenOffice and Mozilla/FireFox on your windows install first to get used to them, so your desktop wont change so much when you switch to running linux underneath it all.
Linux also creates the desire to get under the hood...
I could set up an entire office network with Linux systems and nobody (but the budget department) would feel much if a change. Evolution, Firefox, OOo, that sort of thing. Is it tricky to be an Evolution or OOo user? Hardly. Using Knoppix, possibly with USB Flash RAM instead of a HD, is not too hard, is it?
A friend of mine, a heavy E-mail and MSN/ICQ(Gaim), medium browser and light text processing user, says the easiest setup he ever used was the Fluxbox-based system I put together for him. Alt-F1 to Alt-F4 for the basic keyboard shortcuts - Firefox, Evolution, Gaim and OOo.
So the difficult part is tinkering with the settings. if you have a more experienced person next to you during installation and a good setup is made, you'll never need more. It is only us, the people who like to fine tune it, who encounter the more tricky scenarios.
I didn't read all those threads, but even if you run Mandrake 10 with all the gui frontends, there's gonna come a time when you need to do something that those tools won't do, and you'll have to search, read, and learn. That's my point. If you're not interested in learning new terminology, and reading a lot just to get something to work, you're better off staying away from Linux. It's a thinking man's OS, not for those who want to be spoon fed.
The fault that 90% of computers users don't have a clue what's going on can be directly related to Micro$loth, beginning with version 3.0 and continuing through XP and into the future. Only reason being that Bill Gates is interested in world domination, which Windoze has pretty much accomplished in the desktop PC market. In order to do this, they created an OS that supposedly "does it all for you." And the MSI installers are used by practically all the software developers, so that basically you just "stick the CD in the drive, choose next, next, next OK" and you've got another program running.
I don't want to run anyone off - I want to help everyone migrate from Windoze to GNU/Linux. But those who don't care to read and do anything for themselves - I want Gates to keep. ;-)
LinuxPimp, you may disagree, but let me give you a list of things to "install" with Mandrake, or any other distro, and you give us the quick and easy rundown online here... There are many things you'll want to do with your Linux OS that just won't get done if you're not willing to read and learn a good bit.
Last edited by Bruce Hill; 08-19-2004 at 08:56 AM.