Which PSU for server?

kayasaman · 06-21-2011, 10:51 AM

Hi guys,

I need a bit of advice!

Currently am planning to build a system to be used as a storage array.

Some components have been ordered and arrived :-)

The only problem is that I need to find a decent PSU to work with my design....

Current specs are as so:

Code:

*Chenbro RM223 chassis (sitting in rack right now totally bare)

http://www.chenbro.com/corporatesite/products_detail.php?sku=48&PHPSESSID=39cfa9cc1dd2359967abe966f1279c60

*Supermicro X8SIA-F system board

http://www.supermicro.nl/products/motherboard/Xeon3000/3400/X8SIA.cfm?IPMI=Y

*Intel Xeoan Quad Core LGA 1156 X3400 series CPU (either X3470 or X3430 depending on what price I can get them)

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=42932&wapkw=%28x3470+cpu%29

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=42927&wapkw=%28x3430+cpu%29

*8GB RAM (although more maybe on the way depending on the system performance - will only be 1 stick)

*LSI SAS 3801E HBA (to connect to Promise VessJBOD 1840)

http://www.lsi.com/products/storagecomponents/Pages/LSISAS3801E.aspx

*2x Intel X25-V 40GB SSD Hard Drive's (for booting OS in ZFS redundant array)

http://www.intel.com/design/flash/nand/value/overview.htm

*Intel E1G44ET Quad Port Gigabit Ethernet card

http://www.intel.com/Products/Server/Adapters/Gb-EF-Dual-Port/Gb-EF-Dual-Port-overview.htm

*Promise VessJBOD 1840 16x SATA/SAS DAS (also sitting in rack)

http://www.promise.com/storage/raid_series.aspx?region=en-global&m=168&sub_m=sub_m_3&rsn1=2&rsn3=5&statistic=VessJBOD1000

I might also include 4x large SSD's for using as ZFS cache....

The system will either run Solaris 11 or Nexenta Core 3 to make use of the latest version of ZFS - even though FreeBSD ZFS is awsome

Currently with the information I managed to Google around, the total power of the system should be round about 300 - 400 Watts.... as a rough estimation!!!

For this considering that 400 Watts (say max figure) is @ 60% of the PSU value, 100% is round about ~670Watts....

Therefor I would need something like a 750Watt or 850Watt PSU.

The chassis takes a standard PS/2 PSU so I don't think that any of the extended versions will work in and standard size seems to be round:

150x160x86 (mm)

so I was thinking of getting a Corsair 750W or 850W modular PSU....

http://www.corsair.com/power-supplie...-2/ax750w.html

http://www.corsair.com/power-supplie...d-2/ax850.html

The only think that gets me is a: are my estimations correct and b: these PSU's are for desktops and gaming no?

Can anybody help out with finding a good PSU that will reliably run 24/7 in a server???

Thanks!!

P.s. since I have already bought the chassis there is no room for redundant PSU the reasoning behind that is that my rack cabinet is only 800mm deep meaning I have about 600 - 700mm of mounting depth to play with!

jefro · 06-21-2011, 03:46 PM

If you get one of the better energy efficient ones you can easily go up to overkill. I'd think a 450 would be good but you'd need to check with amp probes or wattmeter to be sure if you want the very least watt psu.

dunno about the das current.

kayasaman · 06-21-2011, 03:56 PM

Thanks for the response!

The DAS current should be minimal as there is an SAS expander card in the way, so as long as the PSU powers the card everythings ok. The DAS has dual (redundant) PSU's anyway.

450W for the PSU seems quite low no? Also since PSU's tend to deteriorate over time too and for use with ZFS operations if 'scrubing' can utilize a lot of system resources over a large amount of disks - hence sucking power.

I mean are there any server grade ones available as I don't know how good a consumer grade (desktop/gamer) PSU would be. I did mention Corsair but I have no idea about branding and which brand is better or more reliable etc...

smallpond · 06-21-2011, 04:08 PM

I prefer redundant power for servers since after the AC power and the drives, the PSU is the most likely thing to fail. But the Corsair looks like a good choice given you are limited to non-redundant. If you are putting it on a UPS, good, that's the right way. If not, put it on a filtered outlet strip to protect from input voltage spikes. The Corsair spec says they use a San Ace fan, but doesn't say whether it is the long life "L" model.

As for wattage - 750W might be overkill. With one CPU and internal SSD, and your disks in an external box I don't see you going over 300W.

kayasaman · 06-21-2011, 04:19 PM

Quote:

If you are putting it on a UPS, good, that's the right way. If not, put it on a filtered outlet strip to protect from input voltage spikes.

Yeah I have a 1500KVA APC UPS which the system will connect to!

Quote:

As for wattage - 750W might be overkill. With one CPU and internal SSD, and your disks in an external box I don't see you going over 300W.

hmm.... ok now am totally confused as I did estimate power consumption to be round 300-400W however I thought the basic technique of choosing a power supply was for the load to be round 60% of the PSU's total full-load capability?

that would indicate ~667W. Otherwise if PSU is efficient enough and won't degrade then can choose a smaller model such as a 650W for modular or if that's simply overkill too then 450W as pointed out by jefro:

http://www.corsair.com/power-supplie...-1/vx450w.html

smallpond · 06-21-2011, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kayasaman

hmm.... ok now am totally confused as I did estimate power consumption to be round 300-400W however I thought the basic technique of choosing a power supply was for the load to be round 60% of the PSU's total full-load capability?

that would indicate ~667W. Otherwise if PSU is efficient enough and won't degrade then can choose a smaller model such as a 650W for modular or if that's simply overkill too then 450W as pointed out by jefro:

http://www.corsair.com/power-supplie...-1/vx450w.html

I think your calculation is too high. Try this one: http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine Dell puts 480W power in their small R415 rack server (AMD, though). 60% is a good safety margin.

kayasaman · 06-21-2011, 08:35 PM

Thank you for that!!!

The site works my requirements roughly out to 273W....

which if 60% PSU load is used means 455W PSU needed.

Add a bit extra just in case so you're looking at 550W which is the next stage up!

cascade9 · 06-22-2011, 02:33 AM

Those 'power supply calculators' always give larger figures than real power requirements. Have a look at this review, and then check the real numbers against the power supply calculator numbers if you dont believe me-

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu...rclocking.html

Yes, yes, 'overclocking vs power consumption'. But there is still good data in there on non-overclocked setups.

For a system that xbitlabs measured at a real maximum power draw of 290 watts, the "eXtreme Power Supply Calculator Lite v2.5" gave a "Recommended PSU Wattage of 443 Watts", and "Minimum PSU Wattage: 393 Watts". BTW, that was the Core2Quad 9505 (and the setup was using a HD5870 which isnt a low power draw item).

Id guess that without counting HDDs and SSDs, max power draw would be well under 200watts.

kayasaman · 06-22-2011, 03:10 AM

Thanks for the info

Quote:

Id guess that without counting HDDs and SSDs, max power draw would be well under 200watts.

It is entirely possible. I'm just worried that eventually with a ZFS filesystem spanning 42 disks using logging, caching, RAID emulation, scrubing, snapshots and other ZFS integral technologies that the CPU will spin-up and memory usage go through the roof (ZFS is hungry on RAM) and hence when the system load goes up then the power consumption will go up and if the PSU is not sufficient I will start being able to fry bacon and eggs on it.

Currently I think 550W is a good choice, as min PSU standards anyway are round 450W for a quality one so yeah.....

cascade9 · 06-22-2011, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kayasaman

It is entirely possible. I'm just worried that eventually with a ZFS filesystem spanning 42 disks using logging, caching, RAID emulation, scrubing, snapshots and other ZFS integral technologies that the CPU will spin-up and memory usage go through the roof (ZFS is hungry on RAM) and hence when the system load goes up then the power consumption will go up and if the PSU is not sufficient I will start being able to fry bacon and eggs on it.

Currently I think 550W is a good choice, as min PSU standards anyway are round 450W for a quality one so yeah.....

Since you will only be running a max of 4HDD in the Chenbro RM223, and the other HDDs are external (with VessJBOD, though you are going to need a few to get 42 HDDs..) the other HDDs dont matter. There will be varied CPU and memory requirements, but it still should be under 200watts, even with max CPU and RAM loadings.

Its easy to get quality power suplies of less than 450watts. Seasnoic makes a few of them-

http://www.seasonic.com/product/pc_atx.jsp

Seasonic also makes at least some of the corsair power suplies (I know the corsair HX520 I have is a rebranded seasonic).

BTW, I'd have a very good look at the Chenbro RM223 before you go buying a power suply. Its hard to tell from manufacturers pics, but it looks to me like you might not have the airspace (or a gap at all) between the top/bottom of the PSU and the case. If there is no airgap, it will block the top/bottom mounted fan found on most bigger power supplies. That could be enough to start overheating the power supply.

Also, the replacement part listed by Chenbro for that case is the sparkle FSP350-60PLN, a 140x150x86mm/5.5x5.9x3.4inch (LxWxH) power supply. Both the corsair power supplies you have linked are 160x150x86mm, which might not fit in the case. I *think* they should, but it could be a very tight squeeze....

kayasaman · 06-22-2011, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Seasonic also makes at least some of the corsair power suplies (I know the corsair HX520 I have is a rebranded seasonic).

I'll take a look and see if they're available in my country as imports are a big no no, I mean the Corsair may not even be available

I asked already but still waiting for my place to get back to me! I mean they didn't have the rack mount rails and other options I wanted for the RM223 chassis.... also they told me "not available in the country" LOL what backwater wash world I live.

Quote:

BTW, I'd have a very good look at the Chenbro RM223 before you go buying a power suply. Its hard to tell from manufacturers pics, but it looks to me like you might not have the airspace (or a gap at all) between the top/bottom of the PSU and the case. If there is no airgap, it will block the top/bottom mounted fan found on most bigger power supplies. That could be enough to start overheating the power supply.

There aren't any airholes for the PSU at the top of bottom and the PSU mounts directly to the chassis bottom. 86mm is the height of the PSU and hence the height of the chassis as it makes up 2U.

Quote:

Also, the replacement part listed by Chenbro for that case is the sparkle FSP350-60PLN, a 140x150x86mm/5.5x5.9x3.4inch (LxWxH) power supply. Both the corsair power supplies you have linked are 160x150x86mm, which might not fit in the case. I *think* they should, but it could be a very tight squeeze....

No Probs: http://www.corsair.com/power-supplie...-1/vx550w.html

550W has same dimensions!

The Sparkle that is stated by Chenbro can be found here: http://www.sparklepower.com/pdf/FSP350-60THA.pdf

I don't know if this has any SATA connectors or if it's too early for that but I need to power 6x HD's, 1x fan controller and the system board with all other components being on the motherboard itself.

Perhaps there might be another model from Sparkle that may suite my needs over the Corsair - if Sparkle are a good and reliable manufacturer?

Soadyheid · 06-22-2011, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Currently I think 550W is a good choice, as min PSU standards anyway are round 450W for a quality one so yeah.....

IMHE if you fitted a 750W or 850W PSU it doesn't mean that your system will actually USE this amount of power. This is the Max suppliable. I reckon as you've got the PSU as a single point of failure, i.e. no redundancy, you might be wise to over spec it. A PSU with more capacity will run cooler than one closer to it's operational limits and therefore last longer, plus it allows you a bit extra for future expansion.

Cost shouldn't necessarily be a problem, I recently got a 680W PSU on special from Maplins (UK) which was cheaper than the 450W model!

Anyway... My

Play Bonny!

cascade9 · 06-22-2011, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kayasaman

I'll take a look and see if they're available in my country as imports are a big no no, I mean the Corsair may not even be available

I asked already but still waiting for my place to get back to me! I mean they didn't have the rack mount rails and other options I wanted for the RM223 chassis.... also they told me "not available in the country" LOL what backwater wash world I live.

I'd just import the rails myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kayasaman

There aren't any airholes for the PSU at the top of bottom and the PSU mounts directly to the chassis bottom. 86mm is the height of the PSU and hence the height of the chassis as it makes up 2U.

No Probs: http://www.corsair.com/power-supplie...-1/vx550w.html

550W has same dimensions!

Yes, the VX550 is the same size, but it wont work properly from what I know.

2U should be 44.45 max height, with 43.5-44mm being typical of the 'real' amount of space. If you mount a PSU with a top or bottom mounted fan (like the VX550) then you will have 1-2mm between the casing and the fan.....not enough space for airflow. You are going to need a PSU with a rear mount and/or front mount fan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kayasaman

The Sparkle that is stated by Chenbro can be found here: http://www.sparklepower.com/pdf/FSP350-60THA.pdf

I don't know if this has any SATA connectors or if it's too early for that but I need to power 6x HD's, 1x fan controller and the system board with all other components being on the motherboard itself.

Perhaps there might be another model from Sparkle that may suite my needs over the Corsair - if Sparkle are a good and reliable manufacturer?

Sparkle dont make great power supplies. They arent bad, but seasonic, corsair (and a few others) are much better IMO.

kayasaman · 06-22-2011, 08:06 AM

Ok Ok you win

:-P

Thanks for all the help in the mean time btw!

Just checked out Seasonic and this series seems to be ok:

SS-500ES Active PFC

Just a bit worried that it won't have all the power adapters I need, I didn't quite understand the connectors section of the PDF located: http://www.seasonic.com/pdf/datashee...tive%20PFC.pdf

Basic specs I need are:
x6 SATA connectors
x3 molex connectors
plus the usual system board and CPU power connectors

If it covers this I'm all set it seems....

smallpond · 06-22-2011, 09:00 AM

This help? http://www.txcesssurplus.com/catalog...-SS500ES-F.jpg