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Old 08-24-2003, 01:36 AM   #1
maximalred
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MSN to break Linux connection used with msn I think read


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Messenger Upgrade to Disconnect Outsiders
By Nate Mook, BetaNews
August 21st, 2003, 4:57 AM


Microsoft is planning a security upgrade to its .NET Messenger service that could have far reaching consequences for IM clients not sanctioned by Redmond.

Starting October 15, users of older MSN clients must upgrade or they will be unable to connect to the service, says Microsoft. Users must be running at least Windows Messenger 4.7.2009, MSN Messenger 5 or MSN Messenger for Mac OS X 3.5.


Support for Mac OS 8 has been officially dropped, but Microsoft will issue MSN Messenger 2.5 for Mac OS 9 on August 27, which will support the new security policy.

Third-party clients, which Microsoft labels "unauthorized," will also be adversely affected by the change.

"It is our expectation that those who use our service with unlicensed or unauthorized third-party clients will likely not be able to log on after October 15," Microsoft spokesperson Sean Sundwall told BetaNews. "We would encourage those third parties to contact us to work out agreements by which they can continue to have their customers access our network."

Clients such as Trillian and Odigo have become immensely popular due to their ability to connect to multiple IM networks simultaneously. Trillian users, for example, can communicate with buddies on AOL, ICQ, Yahoo! and MSN all from a single interface.

Microsoft has established a partner program for .NET Messenger for those interested in pursuing a license to access the company's IM network. Although Microsoft has yet to elaborate on what such a license would entail, it has posted a contact form.

"We've never been a big fan of people accessing the network without authorization," said Sundwall.

But Microsoft itself is no stranger to such activity.

In July 1999, Microsoft launched MSN Messenger with the capability to connect to both AOL and MSN networks. AOL responded by promptly disconnecting MSN users from its network citing security concerns. The move sparked harsh criticism by consumers, and a cat and mouse game with Microsoft developers ensued.

Microsoft and industry giants such as Yahoo! followed with an open letter to AOL CEO Steve Case, calling for collaboration on a IM standard.

"We would like to ask you to join us in this effort and put your full support behind the creation of an industry standard as soon as possible," the letter read. "In the meantime, in the spirit of cooperation, and to provide users with an interim solution, we ask that you suspend blocking users of non-AOL clients from AIM and provide a means for these clients to talk to ICQ as well."

Four years have gone by, however, and the IM landscape has changed greatly. Microsoft is no longer the newcomer and AOL's market share continues to dwindle. Every copy of Windows XP includes Windows Messenger, putting Microsoft's IM network on the desktop of millions.

Despite a myriad of promises, little progress has been made on a unified instant messaging standard.

When asked if Microsoft was concerned with the appearance of hypocrisy now that it too was giving third-party vendors the boot, Sundwall acknowledged, "we certainly have thought about it."

When it launched MSN Messenger, Microsoft touted interoperability as key to instant messaging, but the company's position has changed. "Security is now the number-one feature," according to Sundwall.

"We recognized over time that the interconnection between IM providers must be established formally," said Sundwall. "All we're asking is that those third parties work with us more closely."

Microsoft began notifying users of the impending required upgrade this week. "Monday was the beginning of letting people know," Sundwall noted, adding that, "a relatively small number of people require the upgrade."

The company sent out an e-mail notice to Messenger users, but many brushed off the message as a hoax due its bold opening in purely capital letters. "ATTENTION: IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED FOR MSN AND WINDOWS MESSENGER USERS," it read.

Some users received the message multiple times due to an error in Microsoft's e-mail system, according to Sundwall. Many did not receive the e-mail at all.

However, beginning September 18, Messenger users will be notified of the upgrade every time they log on. No older or unauthorized clients will be allowed to connect as of October 15.

Trillian and Odigo are not likely to go without a fight. After being cut off by AOL in February 2002, Trillian developers countered with patches to bypass each block and eventually forced AOL to relent. Odigo faced a similar battle in June of 2000, and currently touts AOL compatibility in its client.

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If you use your MSN connection in Linux like SuSE 8.2
Posted by MSN4Linux
on August 24th, 2003 at 2:02AM ET



will this effect your connection in Linux if you Dialup into MSN access

like I use SuSE 8.2 with my MSN 8 connection

I use Kinternet program to dialup because no msn 8 avable for linux
just use MSN/Username and password and get the MSN phonenumber from Windows and put it in the Linux Dialup program , use the linux activate firewall and Stupid Mode and DNS Modify settings in Linux

I would use a MSN 8 connection & Messager program if they made one for linux but they don't so I have to use SuSE 8.2 Kinternet program , KPPP program is not really useable without changing permission thing in the newest linux.

I use to use Windows XP but theVirus Scanning program and its Firewall broke the Net connection in windows. Windows firewall are getting really bad for 56 Modem users, I seems like they are really breaking dialup connections now& plus another reason to use Linux is its less likely to get a Virus like the ones that are getting after Microsoft and Email etc.., anyway
Will the MSN Messager upgrade thing break the linux net connection , I think I should be able to use MSN in Linux if I want Internet under Linux, its not right that they don't provide a MSN 8 for Linux app.

I got my Lucent Modem online in linux by compiling drivers for it , which you can find under the hardware sction at www.mandrakelinux.com under lucent for modem brand thing

The 56 modem works better in Linux for downloads & net access then it ever did in windows
I am just a home user that Use SuSE 8.2 Pro and knows how to compile linux programs, and yes I still boot windows for my capure card capturing thing for WMV 9 VHS video and DivX 5 which both are still lacking in Linux but Linux has become better for net acces than windows , your won't get one of those Viruses in Linux and even if you did download a windows virus its not going break your computer in linux because it can not get the root user and as a normal User in Linux your more safe accessing the net than windows could ever be!Really


[ Reply to this comment ]





Messenger
Posted by tannman1
on August 23rd, 2003 at 3:13AM ET



I don't see an issue here, perhaps it is the harsh way Microsoft express their point. Yes they have a right to control how one connects, they do own the application. If they would have said "We will allow no third party apps to connect to our network" that would have been different. Unlike AOL they stated that a partnership program is available. It is their right to do so. This may be a first for me defending Gates empire but the fact remains they own the right to control their property, if anything their choice of words and the way the message was delivered was what pissed people off. But I have come to expect that from Redmond.As far as consumer's being forced to upgrade to the latest version again every app MS releases has a life span from OS's onm down. At some point the support will end. Like or not it again is their right to do with their property as they deem fit.


[ Reply to this comment ]





Re: Messenger
Posted by Stikgawd
on August 23rd, 2003 at 2:08PM ET



It's stupid things like this that moved me to open source. I use Gaim and from what I hear they are going to try to support the new protocol but if not... Kudos.... last service I use related to Microsoft is MSN through Gaim and if I lose that I guess I am 100% free from the totalitarian grasp of Bill Gates :P :P :P Once again strike one up for Linux and BSD.... and please no slamming because of SCO... anyone with any brains at all knows that they have no chance so please keep it to yourselves :P


[ Reply to this comment ]





Re: Messenger
Posted by The DataRat
on August 24th, 2003 at 12:11AM ET



"please no slamming because of SCO... anyone with any brains at all knows that they have no chance so please keep it to yourselves"

Are you kidding ? This is going to be like the the Recording Industry anti-piracy persecutions. You'll be sitting at your computer some night using Open Source, your door will suddenly come tumbling down, and in shall rush a whole team of black-uniformed and masked S.W.A.T. firing their machine guns wildly in the air and setting off stun grenades everywhere !

THEN you'll know you should've used Microsoft products.





[ Reply to this comment ]





Messenger
Posted by tannman1
on August 23rd, 2003 at 3:06AM ET



I don't see an issue here, perhaps it is the harsh way Microsoft express their point. Yes they have a right to control how one connects, they do own the application. If they would have said "We will allow no third party apps to connect to our network" that would have been different. Unlike AOL they stated that a partnership program is available. It is their right to do so. This may be a first for me defending Gates empire but the fact remains they own the right to control their property, if anything their choice of words and the way the message was delivered was what pissed people off. But I have come to expect that from Redmond.As far as consumer's being forced to upgrade to the latest version again every app MS releases has a life span from OS's onm down. At some point the support will end. Like or not it again is their right to do with their property as they deem fit.


[ Reply to this comment ]





^_^
Posted by mo_mo
on August 23rd, 2003 at 12:01AM ET



i don't use third-party software for msn service, so i don't really have to worry too much...


[ Reply to this comment ]





Jabber
Posted by aeon
on August 22nd, 2003 at 8:43AM ET



As far as I know, Jabber transports aren't affected. Maybe this is a good time to switch to the open Jabber IM system?

www.jabber.org

You can find clients here http://www.jabber.org/user/clientlist.php


[ Reply to this comment ]





Sure, I'll upgrade...
Posted by doctorcaligari
on August 21st, 2003 at 1:25PM ET



If they can make the newer clients connect like they're supposed to. I upgraded my M$N to first the 6 beta, and then the 6 final. Beta ran perfect, but the final won't connect. It only works when I uninstall/reinstall, then doesn't work after reboot. Another fine Micro$oft product.

Have a good day,
Doctor Caligari

"If Ford operated like Microsoft, they would hand you the seatbelts two months after you bought a car and expect you to install them yourself" -- Tony Smith, talking about Windows Update


[ Reply to this comment ]





Re: Sure, I'll upgrade...
Posted by Poof
on August 21st, 2003 at 8:30PM ET



Then why don't you send this bug to Microsoft with your OS information? They'll be more than happy to fix it.

I've found that they go out of their way to help people when the really shouldn't.
~


[ Reply to this comment ]





Re: Sure, I'll upgrade...
Posted by doctorcaligari
on August 22nd, 2003 at 2:08PM ET



It's extremely hard to notify M$ of problems when their little bug notification crashes when you try to use it.

In regard to this, I tried it five times. Had to reboot five times. And before you ask: Yes, I've applied all their patches.

Have a nice day,
Doctor Caligari


[ Reply to this comment ]





am i missing something?
Posted by hummy
on August 21st, 2003 at 12:17PM ET



...or is Microsoft using the term .NET for two different things. I was under the impression that .NET "enables the creation and use of XML-based applications, processes, and Web sites as services that share and combine information and functionality with each other by design, on any platform or smart device, to provide tailored solutions for organizations and individual people."(http://www.microsoft.com/net/basics/faq.asp)

Since MS is encouraging third-party developers to 'contact them and work out an agreement', this .NET sounds more like an actual net; snaring third-parties outside the MS sphere.



[ Reply to this comment ]





Re: am i missing something?
Posted by nate
on August 21st, 2003 at 2:48PM ET



.NET is the label Microsoft was using for its Internet-related services, but it's also a Framework like you say. Due to the confusion, Microsoft dropped .NET from most product names, keeping it only in the development space.

But because Microsoft now has Windows Messenger and MSN Messenger, which are the same thing, the company is using ".NET Messenger" to classify both.


[ Reply to this comment ]





Re: am i missing something?
Posted by BorgCube
on August 22nd, 2003 at 12:32AM ET



FYI, WM and MSNM are not the same thing--this is especially true with WM5 and MSNM6. Both of these two MS products can act as a client to the ".NET Messenger" service, but neither of them should not be referred to as ".NET Messenger".


[ Reply to this comment ]





Re: am i missing something?
Posted by nate
on August 22nd, 2003 at 5:43AM ET



Same with regards to connecting to the same network. Of course, they are separate clients and have different abilities - but to avoid confusion, Microsoft classifies them both as .NET Messenger clients. That makes sense to me.


[ Reply to this comment ]





Non issue
Posted by Ryokurin
on August 21st, 2003 at 12:03PM ET



Trillian pro 2 is allready ready, and Miranda is ready with the new update. I didnt even know Odigo was still around and who knows about them. Anyways, as long as the client supports v7 or better of the msn protocol its fine.


[ Reply to this comment ]





nice article Nate
Posted by MxxCon
on August 21st, 2003 at 11:52AM ET



but why are you talking about Odigo as if it's some big player in IM field..
Odigo's market share is tiny and decreasing all the time.
i think 2 most dominant clients right now are Trillian and Miranda IM.
i don't know about Trillian's developers, but with Miranda IM and it's opensource architecture i'm sure patch for new MSN protocol will be released pretty soon. so it's really not an issue...other than the hypocracy from microsoft about IM interoperability


[ Reply to this comment ]





Re: nice article Nate
Posted by nate
on August 21st, 2003 at 2:45PM ET



Great point! There are many other multi-network clients out there besides Trillian and Odigo. I mentioned Odigo due to its publicized fight with AOL in the past, but you are right - there are bigger and better clients out there these days. Miranda IM (used to be Miranda ICQ) is making huge strides and is open source.


[ Reply to this comment ]





Trillian disconnect
Posted by charlieroffe
on August 21st, 2003 at 11:52AM ET



I don't mind, they'll just lose me whenever Trillian can't connect.


[ Reply to this comment ]





No Forced Upgrades!
Posted by ogman
on August 21st, 2003 at 11:45AM ET



If I want to upgrade my software, I will. I am SO tired of MS telling me that I have to upgrade something. Not once has any forced upgrade benefitted the consumer in any way. I'm waiting for some Microsoft spokeperson to come out with the usual garbage about how they listened to their customers and the customer "wants" forced upgrades.


[ Reply to this comment ]





Re: No Forced Upgrades!
Posted by CPUGuy
on August 21st, 2003 at 3:10PM ET



So new features and enhanced security do not benefit the consumer, now that Microsoft is doing it?

So basically, according to you, whatever Microsoft does is wrong.


[ Reply to this comment ]





Re: No Forced Upgrades!
Posted by ogman
on August 21st, 2003 at 4:30PM ET



"So basically, according to you, whatever Microsoft does is wrong."

Hmmm...that's an interesting, if not totally accurate, translation of my words. I thank you for your effort at clarifying, but I'll stick with my original statement.


[ Reply to this comment ]





Re: No Forced Upgrades!
Posted by virtorio
on August 24th, 2003 at 2:18AM ET



Don't cry about it, and just install the new version.


[ Reply to this comment ]





The question is..
Posted by Aitvo
on August 21st, 2003 at 7:45AM ET



Will those that blasted AOL blast Microsoft for doing the very same thing?

(doubtful)


[ Reply to this comment ]





Re: The question is..
Posted by franzj
on August 21st, 2003 at 9:08AM ET



I would, but in conjunction with a good reason (security) Microsoft states its willingness to collaborate with these other IM client developers. If the agreement they must follow competitively prevents these other developers from using the MSN protocol, then I will get angry.

When AOL shut out MSN Messenger, Trillian, etc. it did so without notice, and didn't offer any means to regain access to the AIM protocol. These companies had to do it on their own, and hopefully the same won't happen with MSN's protocol.


[ Reply to this comment ]





Re: The question is..
Posted by Stikgawd
on August 23rd, 2003 at 2:16PM ET



Yeah I can just picture it now... You allow us to put our advertising on your client and you can connect to our service.... I THINK NOT!!!


[ Reply to this comment ]





Re: The question is..
Posted by tannman1
on August 23rd, 2003 at 3:13AM ET



I must agree with your comment, they didn't rule out blanket 3rd party apps at all such as AOL did, in fact they made a point of welcoming such intergration as long as the license and rights of the creator are respected. I see nothing wrong with that. I also do expect any company to indefinitly support older versions of any app, it's not cost effective and after a while it's just silly.


[ Reply to this comment ]





Re: The question is..
Posted by Aitvo
on August 22nd, 2003 at 6:16PM ET



"and didn't offer any means to regain access to the AIM protocol."

Yes they did, they told them to use TOC instead of OSCAR.


[ Reply to this comment ]





Re: The question is..
Posted by uss
on August 21st, 2003 at 8:30AM ET



I do like Microsoft, but I think all three major IM companies are acting like children. If all three messengers could talk to each other, the battle then would be who builds the best client? Microsoft and Yahoo seem to put a lot of work into their free clients, whereas AOL seems to treat it as an afterthought (not to say it dosen't have a lot of good features, it's just that they concentrate on AOL more).


[ Reply to this comment ]





Re: The question is..
Posted by hoogen
on August 21st, 2003 at 6:00PM ET



To my understanding, AOL Time Warner was not allowed to incorporate advanced capabilities in its IM products because Microsoft, Yahoo and such said that AOL would dominate the market too much.

Also, with this ban. If Trillian can't connect, I will be heartbroken, I hate the MSN client. But, most of the people I know are too stupid to download ICQ or anything like that. So I guess I would be forced


[ Reply to this comment ]





Re: The question is..
Posted by hoogen
on August 21st, 2003 at 6:01PM ET



Uh, I meant block not ban


[ Reply to this comment ]





microsoft blast
Posted by DEVAX
on August 21st, 2003 at 7:24AM ET



after the storm comes the nuke msblast worms afected thousands of computers in a manouver to redirect attention microsoft does the worst thing ever. i use trilian that uses icq and msn.
long live the penguin
ps sorry about the mistakes im from portugal


[ Reply to this comment ]





Re: microsoft blast
Posted by franzj
on August 21st, 2003 at 9:35AM ET



I noticed that a lot of people from other countries like to post disclaimers about their English writing abilities. I'll give you credit, because I wouldn't even bother to write French despite studying it for four years.

For your reference check out http://www.dictionary.com. It provides excellent tools for using the English language.

Peace,
Francis


[ Reply to this comment ]





Re: microsoft blast
Posted by MSN4Linux
on August 24th, 2003 at 2:22AM ET



post this at LinuxQuestions.org , I guess will see that type of reaction it will get if any their.

its Under the post name

Messenger Upgrade to Disconnect Outsiders (from MSN)
but I didn't say if it will break linux connections or not?because I don't no


[ Reply to this comment ]





Does microsoft mess with Linux People or Connections yea
Posted by MSN4Linux
on August 24th, 2003 at 2:26AM ET



oh yea that address is www.LinuxQuestions.org
and I post this under the forums sections



[ Reply to this comment ]










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Old 08-24-2003, 12:40 PM   #2
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