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and fox says a bunch of voting machines in florida went bad, there are too many absentee ballots so they cant even BEGIN to count them, and in ohio absentee ballots were sent too late so they will extend the deadline.
its gonna be a loooong month. followed by a loooong 4 years.
Nah the florida thing is pretty much over. Bush has Florida all the focus is on Ohio and that is relatively straight foward as they have announced exactly how things will be done and its not a question ofmiscounts its a matter of counting uncounted provisional ballots.
first off, let me start by saying is anyone here even old enough to vote? If so, are you voting for Kerry because of the issues or voting for him becuase he's not Bush. A LOT of people are doing just that, voting against Bush because they think Kerry is going to fullfil thier dreams of some leftist agenda. Time for a wake up call people. Kerry is keeping troops in Iraq, he said if he was president he would do the same thing Bush did (no wait, he wouldn't have sent troops into Iraq, no wait, he would of, but no funding...aw never mind), has unwavering support for Israel (much to the dismay of terrorists), has pretty much the same foriegn policy of preemptivly striking terrorist organizations abroad. So his views aren't that dissimliar, however people will vote for him because he's not Bush.
People need a wake up call, the country would be no different under Kerry then under Bush. You have to put the partisan bullcrap aside and realize our nation is a mess. It's full of beuacracy, inept leaders at the agency level and in a bad place in the world's eyes.
One has to look athe facts, the unemployment rate is .2% lower then when Clinton was in office, so you can't use that as an argument.
Yes people who made over 200000 dollars a year did get the biggest tax breaks, but you have to look at the proportion of the percentages of taxes they pay as opposed to you and I. People in that tax bracket pay 64% of the nations taxes (www.factcheck.org), yet only make up 2% of the US population. Tax breaks for the rich is a fallacy and can't be used.
Both politicians lie, lie then lie some more. Kerry is a career politician in Mass which is a tough crowd of people to deal with. He knows how to talk and say what people want to hear, and that's exactly what he does.
At least with Bush you know where he stands, and that he is for America first. Kerry wants to subject our motives to the will of European beaucracies in France, Germany and Russia, who by the way have thier own intrests they want to fullfil. I say kudos to Bush for throwing them to the way side and fullfilling our needs first. Just think, America is the most powerful country in the world right now, and we got there by not taking crap from anyone, so all you leftist liberal whiners need to think things through before whining and complaining.
While I don't agree with all of Bush's policies, I don't want to be led by a man and his pretty VP while they try and cosult Europe on every desicion they make. No thanks, we need someone who can make a desicion now and follow through with it.
And those who are complaining...shut up and do your part to make America better by stopping the whining and going out and doing something for your community.
Might I also add, most people bitching about the Bush administration didn't even vote in 2000. I figure if you don't vote then you have no say in how the process is run. If you don't like the way this goverment runs things, then move to a country where you think life is better and leave us alone to fix the problems we think need to be fixed.
I also think a draft of some sort isn't a bad idea. I think people need to serve in a goverment capacity for 1.5 to 2 years in order to gain citizenship. It doesn't have to be military, even just the peace corp, post office or something that will benefit the community other then sitting in your college dorm smoking pot and bitching abou the goverment. For example you can serve in the peac corp for 2 years building houses for homeless people here in the US in run down communities, or oeverseas in places that need help. Join community programs that help clean the streets like a police officer duty, or serve in the military for two years. A border patrol duty might be a good idea, the INS needs to curb immigration, draftees can do it. People can even do clerk work for the government, or whatever you're capable of. At lest people will have a choice on what they want to do. Hell they may even learn a good trade and it may and learn what REALLY happens further then the end of thier nose. I think that will give the American youth some maturity, and sense of patriotism, something we lost when everyone went PC and morality went down the shitter.
I will also like to add I am not a Christian white wing Republican (I know it's coming so I will say it now), or a war monger. I am just a realist who was registered independent at first before going to Republican. I go to church maybe three times a year (I should probably go more), I hate socialists, love capitalism, have Jewish and Muslim friends, a college education, not a hillbilly, live in a big city, have a mililtary background and an unwavering love for America and it's citizens. Even though I disagree with most of the Dems arguments I still support your right to say it, because it's your right, and that's what are forefathers wanted. But please, please be educated on the issues before voting one way or another, and don't just do what's popular, which is what a majority of Kerry supporters did. Studies show most Americans share views with Bush with the exception of abortion and stem cell research, so basically people are blurred by partisan propaganda. Most people play into partisan hackery and can't come up with a decent thought of thier own. Don't let CNN, FOX News, Moore, Tim Robbins, Bruce Springsteen, or Saun "Vote or Die P.Diddy" Combs to the thinking for you. Do it yourselves people...I know you can.
Things can change, the public needs to hold the politicians feet to the fire. When they make mistakes, call them on it, and get facts, not Michael Moore propganda. Hold other countries accountable for thier actions, and most of all, keep faith in God (which ever god that may be, even if your god is the TV, or Tux) and country.
Originally posted by bentman78 first off, let me start by saying is anyone here even old enough to vote? If so, are you voting for Kerry because of the issues or voting for him becuase he's not Bush. A LOT of people are doing just that, voting against Bush because they think Kerry is going to fullfil thier dreams of some leftist agenda. Time for a wake up call people. Kerry is keeping troops in Iraq, he said if he was president he would do the same thing Bush did (no wait, he wouldn't have sent troops into Iraq, no wait, he would of, but no funding...aw never mind), has unwavering support for Israel (much to the dismay of terrorists), has pretty much the same foriegn policy of preemptivly striking terrorist organizations abroad. So his views aren't that dissimliar, however people will vote for him because he's not Bush.
People need a wake up call, the country would be no different under Kerry then under Bush. You have to put the partisan bullcrap aside and realize our nation is a mess. It's full of beuacracy, inept leaders at the agency level and in a bad place in the world's eyes.
One has to look athe facts, the unemployment rate is .2% lower then when Clinton was in office, so you can't use that as an argument.
Yes people who made over 200000 dollars a year did get the biggest tax breaks, but you have to look at the proportion of the percentages of taxes they pay as opposed to you and I. People in that tax bracket pay 64% of the nations taxes (www.factcheck.org), yet only make up 2% of the US population. Tax breaks for the rich is a fallacy and can't be used.
Both politicians lie, lie then lie some more. Kerry is a career politician in Mass which is a tough crowd of people to deal with. He knows how to talk and say what people want to hear, and that's exactly what he does.
At least with Bush you know where he stands, and that he is for America first. Kerry wants to subject our motives to the will of European beaucracies in France, Germany and Russia, who by the way have thier own intrests they want to fullfil. I say kudos to Bush for throwing them to the way side and fullfilling our needs first. Just think, America is the most powerful country in the world right now, and we got there by not taking crap from anyone, so all you leftist liberal whiners need to think things through before whining and complaining.
While I don't agree with all of Bush's policies, I don't want to be led by a man and his pretty VP while they try and cosult Europe on every desicion they make. No thanks, we need someone who can make a desicion now and follow through with it.
And those who are complaining...shut up and do your part to make America better by stopping the whining and going out and doing something for your community.
Might I also add, most people bitching about the Bush administration didn't even vote in 2000. I figure if you don't vote then you have no say in how the process is run. If you don't like the way this goverment runs things, then move to a country where you think life is better and leave us alone to fix the problems we think need to be fixed.
I also think a draft of some sort isn't a bad idea. I think people need to serve in a goverment capacity for 1.5 to 2 years in order to gain citizenship. It doesn't have to be military, even just the peace corp, post office or something that will benefit the community other then sitting in your college dorm smoking pot and bitching abou the goverment. For example you can serve in the peac corp for 2 years building houses for homeless people here in the US in run down communities, or oeverseas in places that need help. Join community programs that help clean the streets like a police officer duty, or serve in the military for two years. A border patrol duty might be a good idea, the INS needs to curb immigration, draftees can do it. People can even do clerk work for the government, or whatever you're capable of. At lest people will have a choice on what they want to do. Hell they may even learn a good trade and it may and learn what REALLY happens further then the end of thier nose. I think that will give the American youth some maturity, and sense of patriotism, something we lost when everyone went PC and morality went down the shitter.
I will also like to add I am not a Christian white wing Republican (I know it's coming so I will say it now), or a war monger. I am just a realist who was registered independent at first before going to Republican. I go to church maybe three times a year (I should probably go more), I hate socialists, love capitalism, have Jewish and Muslim friends, a college education, not a hillbilly, live in a big city, have a mililtary background and an unwavering love for America and it's citizens. Even though I disagree with most of the Dems arguments I still support your right to say it, because it's your right, and that's what are forefathers wanted. But please, please be educated on the issues before voting one way or another, and don't just do what's popular, which is what a majority of Kerry supporters did. Studies show most Americans share views with Bush with the exception of abortion and stem cell research, so basically people are blurred by partisan propaganda. Most people play into partisan hackery and can't come up with a decent thought of thier own. Don't let CNN, FOX News, Moore, Tim Robbins, Bruce Springsteen, or Saun "Vote or Die P.Diddy" Combs to the thinking for you. Do it yourselves people...I know you can.
Things can change, the public needs to hold the politicians feet to the fire. When they make mistakes, call them on it, and get facts, not Michael Moore propganda. Hold other countries accountable for thier actions, and most of all, keep faith in God (which ever god that may be, even if your god is the TV, or Tux) and country.
That's all...thanks.
Damn.....I couldn't have said it better myself! Thats exactly how I pretty much feel on the whole subject......minus the whole drafting thing. People need to get better facts instead of getting spoon fed by the media.
Last edited by stabile007; 11-03-2004 at 02:45 PM.
Originally posted by bentman78 first off, let me start by saying is anyone here even old enough to vote? If so, are you voting for Kerry because of the issues or voting for him becuase he's not Bush. A LOT of people are doing just that, voting against Bush because they think Kerry is going to fullfil thier dreams of some leftist agenda. Time for a wake up call people. Kerry is keeping troops in Iraq, he said if he was president he would do the same thing Bush did (no wait, he wouldn't have sent troops into Iraq, no wait, he would of, but no funding...aw never mind), has unwavering support for Israel (much to the dismay of terrorists), has pretty much the same foriegn policy of preemptivly striking terrorist organizations abroad. So his views aren't that dissimliar, however people will vote for him because he's not Bush.
People need a wake up call, the country would be no different under Kerry then under Bush. You have to put the partisan bullcrap aside and realize our nation is a mess. It's full of beuacracy, inept leaders at the agency level and in a bad place in the world's eyes.
One has to look athe facts, the unemployment rate is .2% lower then when Clinton was in office, so you can't use that as an argument.
Yes people who made over 200000 dollars a year did get the biggest tax breaks, but you have to look at the proportion of the percentages of taxes they pay as opposed to you and I. People in that tax bracket pay 64% of the nations taxes (www.factcheck.org), yet only make up 2% of the US population. Tax breaks for the rich is a fallacy and can't be used.
Both politicians lie, lie then lie some more. Kerry is a career politician in Mass which is a tough crowd of people to deal with. He knows how to talk and say what people want to hear, and that's exactly what he does.
At least with Bush you know where he stands, and that he is for America first. Kerry wants to subject our motives to the will of European beaucracies in France, Germany and Russia, who by the way have thier own intrests they want to fullfil. I say kudos to Bush for throwing them to the way side and fullfilling our needs first. Just think, America is the most powerful country in the world right now, and we got there by not taking crap from anyone, so all you leftist liberal whiners need to think things through before whining and complaining.
While I don't agree with all of Bush's policies, I don't want to be led by a man and his pretty VP while they try and cosult Europe on every desicion they make. No thanks, we need someone who can make a desicion now and follow through with it.
And those who are complaining...shut up and do your part to make America better by stopping the whining and going out and doing something for your community.
Might I also add, most people bitching about the Bush administration didn't even vote in 2000. I figure if you don't vote then you have no say in how the process is run. If you don't like the way this goverment runs things, then move to a country where you think life is better and leave us alone to fix the problems we think need to be fixed.
I also think a draft of some sort isn't a bad idea. I think people need to serve in a goverment capacity for 1.5 to 2 years in order to gain citizenship. It doesn't have to be military, even just the peace corp, post office or something that will benefit the community other then sitting in your college dorm smoking pot and bitching abou the goverment. For example you can serve in the peac corp for 2 years building houses for homeless people here in the US in run down communities, or oeverseas in places that need help. Join community programs that help clean the streets like a police officer duty, or serve in the military for two years. A border patrol duty might be a good idea, the INS needs to curb immigration, draftees can do it. People can even do clerk work for the government, or whatever you're capable of. At lest people will have a choice on what they want to do. Hell they may even learn a good trade and it may and learn what REALLY happens further then the end of thier nose. I think that will give the American youth some maturity, and sense of patriotism, something we lost when everyone went PC and morality went down the shitter.
I will also like to add I am not a Christian white wing Republican (I know it's coming so I will say it now), or a war monger. I am just a realist who was registered independent at first before going to Republican. I go to church maybe three times a year (I should probably go more), I hate socialists, love capitalism, have Jewish and Muslim friends, a college education, not a hillbilly, live in a big city, have a mililtary background and an unwavering love for America and it's citizens. Even though I disagree with most of the Dems arguments I still support your right to say it, because it's your right, and that's what are forefathers wanted. But please, please be educated on the issues before voting one way or another, and don't just do what's popular, which is what a majority of Kerry supporters did. Studies show most Americans share views with Bush with the exception of abortion and stem cell research, so basically people are blurred by partisan propaganda. Most people play into partisan hackery and can't come up with a decent thought of thier own. Don't let CNN, FOX News, Moore, Tim Robbins, Bruce Springsteen, or Saun "Vote or Die P.Diddy" Combs to the thinking for you. Do it yourselves people...I know you can.
Things can change, the public needs to hold the politicians feet to the fire. When they make mistakes, call them on it, and get facts, not Michael Moore propganda. Hold other countries accountable for thier actions, and most of all, keep faith in God (which ever god that may be, even if your god is the TV, or Tux) and country.
That's all...thanks.
can you send me pictures of when hte other 90% of the people in your state beat the crap out of you?
nuka_t is right on the last point, there's not much point in keeping this thread open.
I will admit that I under-estimated John Kerry. I think he showed extraordinary statesmanship by conceding, even though the Ohio thing could still have been in play.
I only get broadcast tv (not cable) and it's interesting to see how the media's left bias showed itself this morning.
It looked like Katie Couric had been crying, she put on so much makeup.
The only other thing I'll say about the mainstream media (all right, the big three NBC, CBS, and ABC) is that they *DID* air footage of September 11, 2001, but more specifically, the footage of GW in the classroom.
What they didn't show was the video of the planes crashing on that same day.
Nuka_t and others, you could probably blame Osama for this outcome. I mean, think about it, the dude releases the tape saying that he's not endorsing any candidate, but if GW got in, he would not stop in his terror-mongering or something along those lines.
this was a few days before the election. The mainstream media did a poll of voters asking if this would change their mind, and a majority of those polled said no.
Days later more than 3.5 million people voted GW, and I wonder how many of them voted that just to P1ss off Osama. I know why i voted, I just don't know why others did. According to the mainstream media, a lot of them predicted Kerry to win (with the Redskins losing, etc.) and during the coverage, it initially looked so with Kerry's lead in electoral votes.
4 years ago there was an outcry that Gore got the popular vote but not the electoral vote. Dems and others cried for a reform of the electoral college system. Now, looking at the numbers, GW did better than Kerry in popular vote, but Kerry really didn't miss electoral vote by that much.
My quip for the day was Ohio is the new Florida.
I can't wait for all of the comedians to come up with their "provisional voting" gags.
More seriously,
Republicans gained a majority in the house and senate. If a supreme court justice is picked, that person might end up being republican and upsetting the delicate balance of the current supreme court.
I know this thread has come close to being closed several times, but I think everybody learned a little bit (through the noise ratio) about American politics.
Here, in my state of Indiana, I threw my vote away for governor. Also, our history of splitting Presidential candidates with gubernatorial candidates has been broken. This means that Mitch Daniels is governor of Indiana. Kernan, who was only officially in office as the governor for a little less than a year, is out. both of these candidates did their best to hog the spotlight and shut the Libertarian candidate out of the debates. I voted for the latter, simply because he doesn't believe in building new roads in Indiana when we can't fix the one's we've got.
The local newspaper endorsed both President GW and Mitch Daniels. The newspaper is the only media outlet in town that couldn't be accused of being liberal or democratic-slanted. I thought that they knew there political stuff after they endorsed GW, but when they endorsed Mitch, I realized they were just as blatant in the opposite spectrum. Today's issue lists a "landslide victory" for Daniels over Kernan. The ironic thing, is that the percentage differences are almost as close as the percentages for the Bush-Kerry race. Now that I think of it, it may have even been a closer race than the presidential race.
Okay, I've rambled enough about national politics, and have delved into local. Let me just say this:
The election is over. It's time to put it behind us, now it's time to get back to work, and try and improve America in other ways besides voting.
And, as a p.s., nuka_t, it is encouraging to find some of America's younger generations so interested in the political arena. Maybe someday you can run for office. heck, you could be the first "open source" candidate!
""EVERY STATE that has EVoting but no paper trails has an unexplained advantage for Bush of around +5% when comparing exit polls to actual results." On the other hand, "In EVERY STATE that has paper audit trails on their EVoting, the exit poll results match the actual results reported within the margin of error.""
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