Oh, so we're onto installing printers, now? My housemate has a certain printer that doesn't function at all under Windows XP unless it installs the same damn driver 6 times. Now, when he goes to print something, he can select between 6 different entries of the same thing. When browsing the smb network, I have one shared printer, my bro has 1, his girlfriend has one and the other housemate has 6! But there's only 1 physical device! Now, tell me that this is either easy, or sensible!

In response to the [fellow] Canadian...I'm so pleased that Everything Worked for You the First Time on your install...I'm not particularily retarded, and I see ever so many of my same problems appearing in this, and other Linux forums. I am *between installs* now, as 3 previous installs have buggered up/been buggered up [by me? machine? Linux distro? me not know!].
I would place myself in the same zone as John the British trucker...I also appreciated the post from the other person who pointed out that there is now room for many backgrounds and interests in Linux land. Neither of these interested/interesting people inflamed my patronizing alert button...as your original missive did...
I am still keen on Linux, but at the moment, more interested in keeping up on latest class-for-return to university class. I'm keen on getting a cheap old[er] laptop or PC to use as a "play" [Linux discovery] computer, as my concept of an extra, "play" hdb has not worked out for me...yo, Santa...
My rambling point is, I'm determind to learn Linux, but frequent install failures/life in general have prevented me from doing this. I resent your implication that EVERYONE in this situation is dead lazy - when it is, just perhaps, a case of being a little less fortunate than you.
Anyway, I hope I never get closer to flaming than this...I have very much enjoyed the thread. In fact, I have just spent considerable time with this...instead of trig homework...gotta go now!

Well, I've put my foot in my mouth again. I certainly was not trying to suggest that everyone who's install doesn't go well is stupid and lazy. I was talking about people who's install buggers in some way and then automatically form the opinion that "linux sux" without trying to troubleshoot.

My writing is almost always incomprehensible ranting, and as such should not be taken to heart.

However, I am still confounded that everyone seems to have so much trouble getting Linux installed. I have installed RH 7.2 7.3 8.0. Mandy 9.0 slack 8.1 and even LFS now, with no major troubles. I'm not usually that lucky. . .

Folks, I would just like to point out a couple of issues.

First of all, we rarely hear about the successful linux install stories on this website. Successful resolutions perhaps, but even those seem rare as I search seemingly unresolved threads... (Yes, I know that people usually find the answer to their question eventually, but fail to actually POST it. That's the point I'm driving at...)
Remember it's called "linuxquestions.org". And as a newbie, I interpreted that as "linuxproblems.org". This is actually my first time back to the site WITHOUT an actual problem I need to post about! I'm sure MANY linux users buy a distro, install without a hitch, and are busily computing away. But if you're hanging around the "questions" site, then you're bound to have a skewed perception of how easy "most people" find the Linux install process to be.

Second, I think people ARE more prone to critisize ALL of Linux when they experience a bad install (As Bulliver pointed out). When people experience a bad Windows install, they just suck it up and muddle through it (Because everyone is using it and there are no alternatives, right?) A bad Linux install prompts many people to abandon Linux altogether, since it IS the alternative OS.
I'm not saying this is a bad or a good thing. It's just human nature. And I'm also betting that the number of TRUE problem installs is just NOT that high!

Man, I wish we could track the number of successful new linux installs. I would bet money that DESKTOP linux distros (let's compare apples to apples) have just as high of a successful install rate as Windows 2000 or XP. I know there are TONS of variables that could effect both numbers, but I think those variables exist in equal proportions. I recall my installation of Windows 2000 Professional for the first time. It took WELL over an hour, and I must have rebooted EIGHT times. And getting my video card (GEFORCE 3) installed properly took some time. In contrast, I had Mandrake 9 cranking in about 35 minutes, I rebooted once, and I had the new Nvidia drivers humming in 15 minutes post-install. And believe it or not, I'm actually a big fan of Windows 2000. It's fast, stable, and does MOST things I want. I may not be a Microsoft fan, but Win2000 is an excellent piece of work, IMHO.

Anyways, bottom line is that I think Linux has been over the "ease of installation" hump for a few months now. (That doesn't mean that those with problems have a low IQ, it just means that I believe the percentage of problem installs is low enough so that marketability is not affected.)

--Akshun J

liked your post akshunj. and based on my own experiences between trying to install linux and trying to install windows, i honestly have to say that despite the several hours of solution searching i had to do to find the kernel parameters to deal with my mandrake 8 UDMA problem before the installer would work, and the fact that i installed it on a slow machine, it took me less time to install mandrake 8 than windows 98. I have also had more failed attempts at installing windows 2000 than linux. you're right about linux having just as high an install success rate as win2k or xp, at least for me.

and you're right about human nature. most ppl don't have the patience to try to fix things, or deviate from the norm. i just happened to have the luck of being 'born' if you will onto an i486sx running windows 3.1 and dos. windows 3.1 was virtually useless, while i could do all sorts of things from dos, which gave me an early obsession with command lines. That and the fact that while the mainstream craps out fairly often, the "alternative" assuming you can make it work, has crashed for me only 4 times in the entire 4 years i've been using it.

I don't really mind the install problems with Linux. The way I see it, by dealing with those problems you earn the right to use something better.

Well I've now got another 10 bob's worth (10 bob>10 shillings>currently 50 pence>previously 120 pence)

anyway, I now consider my install successfull (2 c's & 2 s's or 1 c and 2 s's - I can never remember)........

But I am now stuck, because I have an install that does virtually all the things I ask of it and more. It has taken me the best part of 6 months of stress to even start understanding it.

So what do I do with all these other app's because I haven't really got a clue what they are, what they can do and whether I would want to try and do "it" in the first place.

I appreciate that if I use the software manager available to me, it will give me a precis of the stuff that is installed, and what is available for installation. But most of that is too deep for my minimal knowledge.

I have even thought about building a website, but apart from a bit of information about who I am etc, I haven't got a clue what it could be about that could interest anyone enough to visit it.

So again, it leaves me wanting more information, that is usually (a) not quite so easy too find, (b) not always that easy to understand (c) and more often than not, poorly written.

Which means that I end up moaning about the lack of good, clear and concise documentation, both online and in print (humpf, same bloody soapbox subject again - sorry).

Still I enjoy linux, even if I do find it overly complicated, non intuitive and a general pain in the arse, because I am now in a position the do the majority of things that I want to do without the recourse to those wonderful products from the micro$oft corporation (irony - a good word, but i'll leave you to look it up!!).

So I hope your daily fix of linux leaves you in as good a mood as mine has - enjoy!!

regards

John

Hey! Building a website to document how you got on installing and configuring your system with Mandrake. That's a great idea, John.

Bert