LinuxQuestions.org
Review your favorite Linux distribution.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices

View Poll Results: UNIX is better than WINDOWS
what?HELLO.i am UNIX. the best! 605 68.52%
whooa, wait a minute. Windows is BETTER than UNIX 48 5.44%
hoo-boy..i don't like both. 64 7.25%
errr...i don't know, what is UNIX afterall? 11 1.25%
windows?never heard of it... 155 17.55%
Voters: 883. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Search this Thread
Old 05-06-2006, 02:42 AM   #61
ferentix
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2006
Distribution: Debian Etch (Still setting it up)
Posts: 32

Rep: Reputation: 15

Picked it up as satire pretty quick. Mind, I wasn't *entirely* sure if I was right or not at the time It's not exactly subtle sarcasm, but then again, it's not totally obvious- it is just about believable
 
Old 05-06-2006, 05:23 AM   #62
pilatus666
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2006
Location: cyprus
Distribution: Mandriva 2009.0;
Posts: 263

Rep: Reputation: 30
Good links thanks for posting them made my day much better...
 
Old 05-06-2006, 12:01 PM   #63
ctkroeker
Senior Member
 
Registered: May 2005
Location: Paraguay
Posts: 1,565
Blog Entries: 1

Rep: Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferentix
Picked it up as satire pretty quick. Mind, I wasn't *entirely* sure if I was right or not at the time It's not exactly subtle sarcasm, but then again, it's not totally obvious- it is just about believable
Where you spying on me?
 
Old 05-06-2006, 12:28 PM   #64
Maritime
Member
 
Registered: May 2006
Location: Southern California
Distribution: Debian 3.1 (Server only)
Posts: 36

Rep: Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdog006
You claim Vagrant's ascertion was irrelevent, his logic is flawed, and then you concede that he is correct?
Exactly, except I didn't say his logic was flawed either. His logic is correct, except he arguing about a completely different topic. I never said that Windows did not have a disproportional number of bugs. Indeed, that could very well be exactly the case. I just said that during the time that I used it, it didn't have very many.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdog006
It is very disengenuous to claim that Windows is problem free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maritime
I never said that nothing was ever wrong with Windows. [#43 in this thread.]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdog006
Hardware and software are created to the exact specifications that MS outlines. With vendors working in their favor AND freely sharing source code, MS only has to manage their code and they can't even handle that. All those highly paid software engineers are too incompetent to write decent code when the hard part has already been done for them.

How many vendors refuse to share source code with the Linux community? Linux coders are forced to reverse engineer very complicated drivers, from the ground up. The Linux community rises to the challenge and in most cases ends up with a better hardware driver than the vendor and MS provided in the first place.

With everything on their side, MS products continue to be shoddy. With almost no help from the PC community at large, Linux continues to excell. Why is that?...It's because the Open Source model WORKS and it works much better than MS's approach to software development.

Linux is less of an underdog every day as vendors see the benefits and open themselves and their code to the Open Source community. We still have a long way to go but we have more going for us every day. The writing is on the wall because of MS's weaknesses and the strengths of Linux.
I summarized most of that for you in my last post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maritime
Actually, I agree with this outright. The vast majority of the issues in Linux are related to hardware support. But are the related business practices questionable? I do not think they are. If NVIDIA/ATI do not want to release open source drivers for their hardware, then that is their right. If Microsoft would like to bundle MSIE into their operating system, that is also their right. It is not the responsibility of businesses to support open source software. It is the responsibility of open source software to support itself. If competitors are causing problems for your cause, then find solutions, be competitive, and overcome them. Will open source software eventually do this? I think it will. It is ironic that many people are willing to complain about business shutting the power of Linux out to them when they fail to realize that the amount of potential Linux has is so enormous! Enormous to the point that business intervention probably will not even be needed or relevant in the future.
(emphasis added)

Last edited by Maritime; 05-06-2006 at 12:40 PM.
 
Old 05-08-2006, 10:51 AM   #65
kstan
Member
 
Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Malaysia, Johor
Distribution: Dual boot MacOS X/Ubuntu 9.10
Posts: 851

Rep: Reputation: 31
Talking Linux Desktop Solution

Dear all,

I'd like to start a forum talk about the linux Desktop solution.
In my opinion, linux divided into few category, included resource server (oracle, mysql, http), network infrastructure server(router, access point, firewall, bridge, antivirus gateway), and desktop (Office application, multimedia and etc).
So I would like to talk about the 3rd category, Desktop (Everybody know linux/unix is big player in Server/Network field).

Since I start using linux until now. I found that Linux still need much improvement. Hope everybody can work up together. So, I try to rate the Linux in Microsoft Windows XP point of view (Sorry if you feel incovenient after read this, it is just opinion and I just want to make linux better).

1. Office application

Openoffice, or Microsoft Office in wine/cxoffice is cool.
No adobe acrobat, linux pdf printer always print a stupid large document (I did print out 40MB pdf file but from adobe acrobat the size only ~1mb). [70%]

2. Printing (Linux do provide majority of printer driver but not all). [80%]


3. Multimedia and Video Editing
RealPlayer in Linux lousy slow, MPlayer is quite good but not the best, listen mp3 and watch dvd need to worry the license issue, install plugin for mp3, wmv, dvd, rm and etc very-very troublesome, GUI is bad if compare to Windows Media Player
The video editing software like mainactor and etc allow us to edit video and sound, but windows too provide free video editing tool too (Maybe limited function)
[30%]

4. Performance in linux always maintain. We always found that fresh install windows xp is much faster than linux, but after few month the windows xp performance will drop much [130%].

5.Hardware driver
Nothing to say, difficult to install the driver. Many driver come with the kernel but sometimes need to recompile the kernel or download driver source code from internet. Too difficult for beginer to install since every body use difference distro, kernel version, gcc version. Install ipw2200 driver need to download firmware from sourceforge, b44 network card driver need to recompile kernel (Debian). Creative webcam also need to dig at internet to get the spcaxxx. Easy to say, give user trouble! (Unless the pc/laptop coming bundle with linux and you no need any third party hardware.) Anyway, the basic hardware like usb hdd, mouse, joystic and etc seems working well. But don't expect all hardware vendor provide linux driver to you. [40%]

6. Web browser and Internet tools
Since Microsoft Monoply the market and many web developer follow microsoft trend. Without Internet Explorer bring me trouble. I cannot manage my trend micro web console without the activex. The CCTV web monitoring depends on IE too. Don't experct IE in cxoffice always working. The Sharepoint services function is limited! Who care Mozilla firefox is follow internet standard 100% and user just want everything working.
Download manger for windows is much-much faster (You can try, really 600% speed, lighting fast!)[50%]

7. Security
This is the wonderful place of linux, I never worry about the virus since the hacker/cracker only concentrate to attack windows. Without antivirus scanning at everyday 12.30pm. I'm happy if compare with my company users (They perform daily antivirus scanning). However, now internet do provide free antivirus, antispyware, and firewall. So now linux is no longer have advantage in this area (Provided user install all this thing). [100%]

8. Development
Honestly, linux is a best development environment, however microsoft has monopoly the market. So we found that linux developer is much-much less than microsoft developer (At least in Malaysia). Microsoft Visual Basic/C++/ C# not really better than QT/java and etc. LAMP compination is cool. [200%]

9. Graphic design/CAD/CAM
Gimp, Qcad, Intellicad and etc is good. However, I still never heard any CAM software running in Linux. Photoshop and autocad seems like can run on top of crossover office
[70%]

10. Video Game
Too many game is not supported by Linux. Cedega is not perfect to run all video games. Display card driver always need to do tweaking. Majority of gammer only concern on playing rather than setup computer. (Actually myself too). [20%]

11. Others software
Please don't think that only linux have many free of charge software. You can also free download many-many free windows software. Sometimes the quality is really good and very easy to use and install. [100%]

Again, comment is only a comment. Don't think that I purposely want to put firewall. Lets us discuss how to make linux better.


Kstan
 
Old 05-08-2006, 12:05 PM   #66
ssfrstlstnm
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2004
Location: IN, USA
Distribution: debian etch
Posts: 402

Rep: Reputation: 30
You forgot one very important thing: COST. I also don't fully agree with your assessment of multimedia. Mplayer is quite good, and I have no problem installing it and the w32 codecs and libdvdcss (legal or not, the media police haven't come to visit me yet) on Debian.
 
Old 05-08-2006, 12:17 PM   #67
macemoneta
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Manalapan, NJ
Distribution: Fedora x86 and x86_64, Debian PPC and ARM, Android
Posts: 4,593
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 326Reputation: 326Reputation: 326Reputation: 326
You should perhaps investigate a modern Linux distribution (like FC5) on a modern system. As a properly installed configured desktop (the function of the OEM, not the end-user), a modern Linux system far ourstrips Windows XP in usability and functionality.

Typically, people confuse their limited ability to install and configure Linux with limitations of the system or environment.

I've seen folks hits the same wall with Windows, when they are forced to reinstall with a boxed version. No drivers, broken functionality, etc. This is not a limitation of the software, simply a limitation in the end-user's understanding of what is required to properly install software on a bare machine.

Modern Linux distributions are no different. As far as I can tell, a distribution like FC5 properly configured for desktop use far exceeds the functionailty and usability of what will be in Windows Vista. I have "pre-installed" systems for friends and family (non-techical end-users, both adults and teens), and they agree.
 
Old 05-08-2006, 04:20 PM   #68
XavierP
Moderator
 
Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Kent, England
Distribution: Lubuntu
Posts: 19,165
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 426Reputation: 426Reputation: 426Reputation: 426Reputation: 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstan
Dear all,

I'd like to start a forum talk about the linux Desktop solution.
In my opinion, linux divided into few category, included resource server (oracle, mysql, http), network infrastructure server(router, access point, firewall, bridge, antivirus gateway), and desktop (Office application, multimedia and etc).
So I would like to talk about the 3rd category, Desktop (Everybody know linux/unix is big player in Server/Network field).
We have one of these. It's in General and I will move this thread into the "Windows vs Linux Supermegathread"

Quote:

1. Office application

Openoffice, or Microsoft Office in wine/cxoffice is cool.
No adobe acrobat, linux pdf printer always print a stupid large document (I did print out 40MB pdf file but from adobe acrobat the size only ~1mb). [70%]
Acrobat Reader works in Linux and OpenOffice (and others) enable you to read and write pdfs.

Quote:
2. Printing (Linux do provide majority of printer driver but not all). [80%]
Bearing in mind that most of these drivers are produced without the manufacturer's help, I think you were to conservative in your score.

Quote:
3. Multimedia and Video Editing
Gui is good. Mplayer, Xine and Totem and VLC are popular for areaon.

Quote:
5.Hardware driver
Not the fault of Linux, this is the fault of the manufacturers. The coders do what they can, but they are hobbled.
Quote:
But don't expect all hardware vendor provide linux driver to you. [40%]
Why not? If you buy the hardware why shouldn't you expect it to work in the way you want it to?

Quote:
6. Web browser and Internet tools
Since Microsoft Monoply the market and many web developer follow microsoft trend. Without Internet Explorer bring me trouble. I cannot manage my trend micro web console without the activex. The CCTV web monitoring depends on IE too. Don't experct IE in cxoffice always working. The Sharepoint services function is limited! Who care Mozilla firefox is follow internet standard 100% and user just want everything working.
Download manger for windows is much-much faster (You can try, really 600% speed, lighting fast!)[50%]
Really, really closeminded and silly straw man argument. Microsoft Sharepoint only works with Microsoft Internet Explorer. Well DUH! Standards are important because THEY ARE STANDARDS.

Quote:
7. Security
This is the wonderful place of linux, I never worry about the virus since the hacker/cracker only concentrate to attack windows. Without antivirus scanning at everyday 12.30pm. I'm happy if compare with my company users (They perform daily antivirus scanning). However, now internet do provide free antivirus, antispyware, and firewall. So now linux is no longer have advantage in this area (Provided user install all this thing). [100%]
Since there are no live Linux viruses or spyware, not having to use the anti- tools is great.

Quote:
9. Graphic design/CAD/CAM
Gimp, Qcad, Intellicad and etc is good. However, I still never heard any CAM software running in Linux. Photoshop and autocad seems like can run on top of crossover office
[70%]
Blame the manufacturers.

Quote:
10. Video Game
Too many game is not supported by Linux. Cedega is not perfect to run all video games. Display card driver always need to do tweaking. Majority of gammer only concern on playing rather than setup computer. (Actually myself too). [20%]
See answer to 10

[/quote]11. Others software
Please don't think that only linux have many free of charge software. You can also free download many-many free windows software. Sometimes the quality is really good and very easy to use and install. [100%][/quote]SOMETIMES the quality is good? Well that's wonderful, businesses don't mind if they get programs that are sometimes good.

Anyway, this is now part of the stickied thread at the top of General.
 
Old 05-09-2006, 10:57 AM   #69
kstan
Member
 
Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Malaysia, Johor
Distribution: Dual boot MacOS X/Ubuntu 9.10
Posts: 851

Rep: Reputation: 31
Again, I'm not intent to argue anything. My target is only 1 which is discuss how to make Linux better(Or make user happy). I do agree you are the Linux expertise and I am a silly guy in Linux. But the fact is the the Windows is the winner in desktop market. I would like to say that stoping protect linux with this kind of method and stop giving Linux excuses. Sit on the problem is not the way to help the Linux.
The purpose I start this topic is to discuss how to make it as a total Desktop Solution, for Beginner to Expertise(Sometimes windows expert user is more difficult to deal with because they refuce go back to computer idiot).

Let me start 1st one, Office Application in Linux:-
[OpenOffice.org]
-I'd test up the Openoffice 2 quite long time. The problem I found in my organization is it do not support Delete
Column which found some of the cell had merged. (Calc)
-Cannot set the tap color. (Calc)
-Cannot use hypper link to navigate difference tab (Calc)
-Majority of chart inside The Microsoft Excel Format is not supported by Openoffice.
-Start up speed still take long time if compare to Ms Office.
-For myself other item still function well.
-Some third party vendor provide services to export data to csv, word, excel, html or etc but not openoffice.
-We can install Microsft Office 2003 on top of cxoffice in Linux, but due to difference distro, kernel version and
etc. I found that cxoffice not always function well.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[PDF]
-I know that there is acrobat reader in Linux, but the adobe acrobat is not there. I did print my company profile (in presentation format) to pdf format and the output pdf is 44mb (User haven't reduce the image size before import to power point). So, do somebody know that any software in linux can perform as adobe acrobat (Default setting can export the power point to 1mb file only)?
--------------------------------------------------------------

[Multimedia]
-Playing multimedia file in Desktop is consider general requirement in my organization, like dvd, rm, wmv, mp3, and etc. However, is it everybody agree that Linux is not support very well in all this format due to the licensing issue?
--------------------------------------------------------
So, I would like to throw a question, does anyone in this forum can make majority of the end user ( IT beginner to expertise) happy for the following item during implementation? And how you make it? How you convince them.

Real player (Helix) in Linux is really low performance, so I will say that after install the Real player in linux, copy all the codec to Mplayer codev directory. It is cool. Playing wmv, mp3, dvd I think at internet have many documentation and I no need to talk much about it. Just 1 thing which is why the linux vendor cannot find a way to deliver a desktop distro linux which include all the format (rm, ram, swf, dvdclass, wmv, wma, mp3, and etc)

Due to most of my user seems like cannot sulvive without Microsoft Windows, I do think that find a linux which have a Microsoft Windows XP theme and meta bar (Need to do some tweaking on kde konqueror toolbar too). I do heard that lindows change to Lin---s and have the same vision too. Somebody try it before? Is it good?

Since IT is something to help user and not give them a burden. What I can do in office application is try my best to make everything online. Share report/data in web page, ask my staff to write online spc system (Previosly in excel format). Choose Compiere as my ERP system and try my best to port everything inside so it can reduce the demand of Microsoft Office(Hopefully).

However this is only a plan and everything is haven't start in my organization.

Regards,
KS
 
Old 05-09-2006, 11:29 AM   #70
ssfrstlstnm
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2004
Location: IN, USA
Distribution: debian etch
Posts: 402

Rep: Reputation: 30
Many of the modern distros are becomming much easier to use. This is making it easier for people to make the switch. As more people start using linux, hardware and media support will follow. MS knows this, which is why we are seeing them trying to discredit the open source movement. I think the time for widespread adoption of linux is close.

Perhaps the most important step in that direction is the development of Openoffice. I agree that openoffice has a way to go before it can completely replace ms office (at least for my work). OO calc charting capabilities are especially weak as kstan mentioned. Hopefully this will be improved in the next version. Another problem is that since everyone uses MS office which doesn't support ODF, compatibility is poor at best. I have my doubt's that MS commitment to support ODF in the future will improve the situation much (at least where you need to produce anything more complex than a simple document).
 
Old 05-09-2006, 12:30 PM   #71
ioerror
Member
 
Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Old Blighty
Distribution: Slackware, NetBSD
Posts: 536

Rep: Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstan
But the fact is the the Windows is the winner in desktop market.
1. It's not a competition, there is no "winner".

2. What market? Again, Linux does not exist to compete with Windows, it exists in it's own right as a freely available "unix-like" operating system. Who cares about "markets", other than a bunch of cloned bean-counters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kstan
I would like to say that stoping protect linux with this kind of method and stop giving Linux excuses. Sit on the problem is not the way to help the Linux.
What problem? Linux hasn't got a problem. It is not the responsibility of Linux to teach people how to use it, or to try to "convert" them. There is plenty of documentation out there for people who can read, and forums like this where people can ask for help. If they can't be bothered to investigate their options, so what? If they are not even aware that alternatives to Windows exist, then that is the result of their own ignoreance and laziness. What do I care? It's not my problem. It's not Linux's problem. If people don't like Linux, don't use it. It's not a popularity contest.

P.S. I haven't read every post (we're on page 5 here), so apologies if I've just reiterated what someone has already said.
 
Old 05-09-2006, 02:57 PM   #72
aysiu
Senior Member
 
Registered: May 2005
Distribution: Ubuntu with IceWM
Posts: 1,776

Rep: Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ioerror
1. It's not a competition, there is no "winner".

2. What market? Again, Linux does not exist to compete with Windows, it exists in it's own right as a freely available "unix-like" operating system. Who cares about "markets", other than a bunch of cloned bean-counters.
The kernel doesn't exist to compete with Windows? I'll agree with that.

To imply that every operating system based on the Linux kernel does not exist to compete with Windows is sheer geek idealism. SuSE, Red Hat, Linspire, Ubuntu, and Xandros all exist very much to compete with Windows.

Maybe Gentoo and Slackware don't...
 
Old 05-09-2006, 03:20 PM   #73
ferentix
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2006
Distribution: Debian Etch (Still setting it up)
Posts: 32

Rep: Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctkroeker
Where you spying on me?
No?!

Sorry, I don't get it... care to explain?
 
Old 05-09-2006, 04:10 PM   #74
dalek
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Mississippi USA
Distribution: Gentoo
Posts: 2,058
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by aysiu

Maybe Gentoo and Slackware don't...
They are working on it. Gentoo has a GUI installer from what I have been reading so it's getting there.

Maybe to some it is not a compitition but it is to me. I want Linux to get easier to use, remain secure and as virus free as possible, like now, and put windoze out of my misery.

I just installed Mandriva for my fiances mom and it was a snap, even to set up DSL. It was a lot easier than a few years ago.

My worth.

 
Old 05-09-2006, 04:22 PM   #75
ioerror
Member
 
Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Old Blighty
Distribution: Slackware, NetBSD
Posts: 536

Rep: Reputation: 30
Quote:
To imply that every operating system based on the Linux kernel does not exist to compete with Windows is sheer geek idealism. SuSE, Red Hat, Linspire, Ubuntu, and Xandros all exist very much to compete with Windows.
Really? Maybe that's why they are so pointless (joke!). If you make good software, why do you care what other people do?

But I don't regard Suse/Red Hat etc as different operating systems. They are still Linux. They use the Linux kernel, glibc, gcc, X, and so on. The software is the same, it is mostly just the installation and package management that differs, and that doesn't qualify as a different OS, IMO. OK, you have a point wrt to the companies but I was referring to the software, not the aspirations of particular people/companies.

P.S. I'm not a geek At least I don't think so. I'm not really sure what the word is supposed to mean anyway...?

Last edited by ioerror; 05-09-2006 at 04:50 PM. Reason: typos
 
  


Closed Thread

Tags
business, kenny's_playground, microsoft, register, technical, windows, worm, wtf


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Linux-windows Dual boot question when upgrading from windows 2000 to XP sarikalinux Linux - Newbie 1 03-09-2006 02:21 PM
Solution Dual Boot Windows & Linux [ALL DONE IN WINDOWS] No Linux terminology DSargeant Linux - Newbie 35 02-07-2006 03:29 PM
Solution Dual Boot Windows & Linux [ALL DONE IN WINDOWS] No Linux terminology DSargeant Linux - Newbie 4 11-10-2005 11:37 AM
Red Hat Linux 9 + Windows Server 2003 + Windows XP + Fedora in same domain wolfy339 Linux - Networking 5 03-02-2005 06:03 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:14 PM.

Main Menu
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
identi.ca: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration