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Right, so what you're saying is this:
"Linux works fine and doesn't give me any problems. However, there are specific applications released by companies who don't support Open Source software/Linux and therefore Linux sucks." Yeah?
I will not go into how wrong your conclusion is. I only hope that no one attempts to emulate it in a college paper or thesis.
What I will say is this: in the General forum we have had a megathread for Linux vs Windows threads for a while no and this thread will be merged into it.
Looks to me like he was saying that he loves Linux and Open Source, but some of the programs that he needs every day are not available, and/or the alternatives are not capable of doing what he needs them to do.
What you should do is complain to the companies that make those softwares to make a Linux port. If enough people complain, they might eventually cave and release a Linux port.
What you should do is complain to the companies that make those softwares to make a Linux port. If enough people complain, they might eventually cave and release a Linux port.
I agree with you, too often I see people blaming linux for the lack of support or availability for an application, or driver for some hardware. Yet no one seems to direct any of that attention to the manufactures/companies in question.
* Gaming
Let's face it, for your average home PC user, gaming is pretty important aspect of PC ownership. In my experience, even people who really aren't all that into games still indulge the occasional new game.
Linux is pretty much a wasteland when it comes to games. Go through the top 10 PC games (or top 50 if you're feeling adventurous) and you're unlike to find more than one or two that will run on Linux. The sad fact is that, while there is plenty of interest in developing Linux as a platform,
when it comes to gaming that interest just isn't there (for a number of reasons, which revolve around money and the number of users).
If you're a gamer and you want to go down the Linux road, the best you're going to achieve is a dual boot system.
* Software support
Going hand-in-hand with gaming is software support. Walk around any store selling software and see how much Linux-compatible software you can find. Not much. This needs to change. Consumers want to see stuff that they can buy that will work for them. Granted, there's a ton of stuff available for Linux as long as you know where to look, but for your average user that's not enough.
* Stop assuming that everyone using Linux (or who wants to use Linux) is a Linux expert
Let me draw an analogy with Windows. Even though Windows has been around for years and is almost universal, that doesn't mean people have mastered the basics. I still get emails asking me very basic Windows questions. The thing that amazes me when I get one of these requests (and I'll get at least one a week) is that these people have somehow found my site, figured out how to get in touch with me, and then written me a note asking me their question. Firing up Google and doing a quick search would have been much faster and got them the answers they were looking for much quicker. You can't assume that someone who uses a PC is an expert.
Linux needs to look like it's a simple choice, but at present, certainly from the outside looking in, it doesn't look that way. In fact, I'd say that the simplicity currently ends at the point where you install the OS. It needs to go further, much further.
* Hardware support
The one area of Linux ownership and use where it becomes apparent that there's an assumption that everyone who uses Linux is an expert is hardware support. Your average user doesn't have the time, the energy or the inclination to deal with uncertainty. Also, they usually only have the one PC to play with. Hardware just has to work. There's a very good reason why Microsoft spends a lot of time on hardware compatibility - it's what people want.
There are a number of other hurdles that those new to Linux have to jump and issues to come to terms with that aren't related to Linux as a platform. For example:
* Too many flavors
If it was a straight contest Windows vs. Mac vs. Linux, choosing Linux would be easier. Unfortunately, going Linux means choosing your OS from a huge number that inhabit the Linux ecosystem. So that makes the jump to Linux a bigger deal (it could be argued that Windows offers the same problem of choice, but with XP the choice was pretty simple - with Vista however, that might change).
* The whole OS Holy War thing
Too many people I've spoken to feel that making the leap to Linux means that they have to become some sort of fanatic or join a cult. The face of Linux as portrayed by the extreme fans just isn't wining it much support. It comes across as hokey, uninformed or just raging against the machine (usually Microsoft).
I am not in 100% agreeance with the "too many flavors" but when i was much more of a newbie and did not know my head from a hole in the ground when it came to linux distros i went with what was on the shelf. for me that was a book with RH9 (less then 6months before RH dropped support on RH0 and moved 100% to corp. support and FC).
either way, for everything that linux is, the power that is missing is in the lack of support from merchants not from the linux community.
It will prove interesting with Oracle and Novell and MS getting into the Linux game. i look forward to seeing major changes over the next few years.
*Gaming:
This is entirely down to games developers, Linux users/distributors cannot force companies to release games for Linux. You want 'em, tell the developers.
*Software support:
Unix is the most portable OS on the planet, and has software coming out of its /dev/ears.
* Stop assuming that everyone using Linux (or who wants to use Linux) is a Linux expert:
Who makes this assumption? Nobody here, otherwise forums like LQ wouldn't, by definition, exist. But a computer is not a hairdryer, a certain amount of learning is required.
*Hardware support:
Linux supports all my hardware nicely, thanks. Again, any incompatibility is down to the manufacturers, it has nothing to do with Linux or free software developers.
*Too many flavors:
It's a free country. Nobody is entitled to dictate to anyone else what software they can use. Anyone is free to create a new distro. If you don't like freedom, try slavery.
*The whole OS Holy War thing:
What war? AFAIC, M$ is irrelevent, I have no interest in it or it's products, and neither it or it's products have any discernible effect on me.
Last edited by soggycornflake; 11-03-2006 at 02:29 PM.
tbh i think the the write up there makes a lot of sense. it's talking about the perceptions that the average pc user might have, and i think most of it is spot on. as an ardent windows user myself i agree with some of the points raised, but i also know that a lot of the myths about linux are just that, myths.
for linux to be more of a mainstream system it has to become more user friendly for new comers, and has to dispel a lot of the myths that surround it.
I don't think that Linux was ever built to be an alternative to Windows. I never have heard Linus Torvalds saying that. I never heard a serious Linux developer saying that either. As far as I know, Linux was meant to be an alternative to Unix. Yet, Internet is full of peoples who wants Linux to be more like Windows, because they dislike Microsoft for one reason or another. When peoples complain that Hardware support is a Linux issue, I usually stop reading the article. Making drivers is a hard task and it gets even harder when the company does not release specifications for it.
Game wise, there's nothing wrong with Linux either. It is up to the developers to choose to release the game cross-platform or not. The community can do nothing if the program relies on the obscure Windows libraries in order to run.
Now... going a bit off-topic: I HATE blogs. Blogs are just a way for some lonely guy to express their feeling about something they not truly understand. I get easily annoyed when searching the web after some tutorials about a given issue and hit a Joe's blog complaining about something. Internet is officially polluted with those horrible writers and I hope LQ.org is not going to turn in a place to collect all this garbage written on the Internet...
just my two cents
Last edited by Mega Man X; 11-03-2006 at 03:39 PM.
*The whole OS Holy War thing:
What war? AFAIC, M$ is irrelevent, I have no interest in it or it's products, and neither it or it's products have any discernible effect on me.
That's the very attitude they're talking about. Replacing the S in "Microsoft" with $, "Winblows"/"Windoze" instead of "Windows", etc. The very thing you're doing right there is probably what caused people to feel like that in the first place.
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's the very attitude they're talking about. Replacing the S in "Microsoft" with $, "Winblows"/"Windoze" instead of "Windows", etc. The very thing you're doing right there is probably what caused people to feel like that in the first place.
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then it is those people who are uninformed. I think 20 years of FUD, and software which is incompatible with the previous version in order to force people to upgrade, etc, deserves exactly that kind of disdain. Presumably, it's also exactly (or at least, mostly) the reason people want to get away from M$^HS in the first place, so for them to be put out about it seems inconsistent, if not downright hypocritical. Besides, if they can't take a joke, then fsck 'em!
To be honest, MS isn't really the problem, it's people who think that Windows is what an operating system is supposed to be like (unstable, insecure, self-incompatible, etc, etc).
Last edited by soggycornflake; 11-03-2006 at 04:57 PM.
Presumably, it's also exactly (or at least, mostly) the reason people want to get away from M$^HS in the first place, so for them to be put out about it seems inconsistent, if not downright hypocritical. Besides, if they can't take a joke, then fsck 'em!
It wasn't for me. I liked Windows 2000 a lot, and had no problems with it. I just came to linux out of curiousity, and eventually I just happened to prefer it to windows.
And not being able to take a joke is one thing, but after the same joke is repeated over and over and over it gets tired, then later just plain annoying. Don't you think?
Don't get me wrong here. I'm not flaming you or anything, I'm just showing how that is a valid point, and a valid concern for the writer of the article to have. And I do agree with you that microsoft is pretty crap, with their awful business practises and EULAs and the prices and quality of their software. So hating microsoft is OK. But that "M$" stuff really does get tiring.
Last edited by PatrickMay16; 11-03-2006 at 06:30 PM.
It wasn't for me. I liked Windows 2000 a lot, and had no problems with it. I just came to linux out of curiousity, and eventually I just happened to prefer it to windows.
And not being able to take a joke is one thing, but after the same joke is repeated over and over and over it gets tired, then later just plain annoying. Don't you think?
Don't get me wrong here. I'm not flaming you or anything, I'm just showing how that is a valid point, and a valid concern for the writer of the article to have. And I do agree with you that microsoft is pretty crap, with their awful business practises and EULAs and the prices and quality of their software. So hating microsoft is OK. But that "M$" stuff really does get tiring.
That's funny, most of us are tired of ludicrous instability, fundamental insecurity, and constant invasions of privacy.
Windows is garbage. It has a web browser tied into the core of the "OS". Nuff said.
Last edited by soggycornflake; 11-12-2006 at 11:28 AM.
Reason: typo
Hey, these are all recycled arguments. Luckily I, in my wisdom, created a home for recycled arguments. That's right, next stop the "Linux vs Windows Megathread"!
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