First of all, let me say I too feel some of your pain. I've been experimenting with various Redhat, SUSE and Mandrake versions for several years. Just two weeks ago I made what I consider my final leap into Linux. I've got a lot of learning to do, but my experience this time around has been great!

I too work in the IT industry and have been using Windows since the 3.0 version. It's tough to move from something you know so well into an environment where almost nothing you know applies.

I would definitely recommend Mandrake 9.1 w/ KDE to anyone as a good desktop distribution. This combination is a little slower by default, but IMHO easiest to use and learn. And once you get a little more comfortable with Linux, there are a lot of things you can tweak to speed it up!

One point that never seems to get brought up in these "discussions" is one of the major differences between Windows and Linux. Most of the normal users you refer to in the above quote receive Windows pre-installed and configured for the computer they purchased--with the appropriate drivers and so forth. Almost all even come with a recovery CD tailored for that PC so the user never has to install/re-install Windows). Micro$oft has a real advantage here. If those same users had to install Windows from scratch, obtain and install drivers, configure network cards, etc it would be a much, much different experience.

Most of the problems new Linux users have are related to installation and configuration. For the average user that just wants to browse the web, manage email and use office products, Linux is just as easy to use--once it's installed and configured!

Just my $.02.

Five Days?

Give it time. Linux has much better resources than Windows. You can bet if you are having a problem with something there's a way to fix it or there's someone working on it. Just look for the information you need. It's out there.


I installed Linux for the first time using a book and a disk that came with it. RedHat 6.2. It was a piece of cake and it worked. I was using it for my dialup connection / router for my house. It has come a long way in a very short time.


Initial install of RedHat 9 on my laptop took about 40 minutes to install everything on the disks.

It took me quite a while, a few days to build and update everything from source, which did not really change anything except speed. As I get updates from up2date I build the source code and update the system.

Kernel testing goes on but the system was up and usable with all hardware working in less than an hour.

My first Linux Red hat 9 install took me at least 10-20 hours. This was mainly because I insisted on a four port Tulip nic card, Snort IDS, PHP, Apache, MYSql , ACID along with VPN'ing and port mirroring my switch. I must of did a clean install 6 times. I'm a seasoned MCSE and prior to this task I had never even seen the Linux OS. To install this particular configuration was a war but I never gave up am completely satisfied with the outcome. Linux is an excellent OS and cannot be outclassed for the purpose I configured it for. My only complaint is the file system structure (who's logic still confuses me a bit) is hard to remember and results in reverting back to my documentation to locate config files. But remember practice makes perfect and you'll only get better at it.

My first RH install (8.0) never worked (I was a nub, knew nothing about nothing)
RH9.0 (1hr) worked, except after awhile X crashed and forced 800x600 (ew) on me
Next install a few months later, same thing!
My friend sent me a picture of the real gnome, I was sold, I said screw RH and he had told me about slackware.
Slackware 9.0 (~2hrs) I did a menu install (select every package in each section you want to install).
Reinstalled Slack because I broke it with a new kernel (twice ).
Heard about Gnome 2.4 and my friend was showing off Gentoo so I couldn't resist.
Gentoo 1.4 AMDAXP optimized (~2days) didnt even finish installing it, I've never successfully compiled a new kernel, so I didn't what the hell I was doing in gentoo :P
Reinstalled gentoo, kept getting errors when doing emerge sync etc... still didn't work
Saw slack 9.1 on their site, gnome 2.4 and the 2.4.22 kernel (1hr) (the first that supports my onboard sound card)
reinstalled like 3 times (1st because of kernel, 2nd because of my 1st not going right, my 3rd because I wanted to try Win2k3 server and it killed my mbr)

Now what have I learned from this? Let's see, let's list the things I can't do on a linux system so far
Setup my printer (network, samba)
get my forward and back mouse buttons working and recompile a new kernel.
I'm pretty sure I don't know other stuff but I've learned about recompiling kernels (even though I always forget something), compiling and installing programs, finding files, making start-up scripts, etc...

I wub you tux

<<< I tell them man I wish Windows had a command line cause what your doing I could do twice as fast in Linux at a console, than what your doing with your mouse and buttons >>>

True up to a point: there are many things now that go quicker and easier from the gui than from command line. Samba, Lin Neighborhood as an example. Install package and you are ready to go out of the box, so to speak. Compare with the work required to get Samba to work under SuSE 6.4 and it is no contest...today's GUI is definitely faster and better.

Actually there is some package out there where you can install bash and a bunch of bin utilities under Windows. A friend of mine swears by it. I'm not sure what's the point, just use Linux!

I used to love the 4DOS/Norton-ncd command line back in my DOS days.

I used to feel totally stripped of all my power using the older MacOS without being able to resort to a command line when all else failed.

It's real nice to have both and powerful command line and a GUI. GNU/Linux gives me this, even if the GUI still needs a lot of work.

well, how long did it take me to set up linux? several hours originally, because i was doing some voodo to get it installed,,, but i digress, the original poster is right to some extent, linux isn't quite ready for prime time... though in my oppinion he (she?) shouldn't give up..., linux was never intended for the masses, although it seems to be doing a pretty good job of attracting new users by word of mouth advertising, there is still a long way before the general public is technical enough or there are distributions that 'dumb down' enough to the general poplulaiton for linux to be prime time material... let's face it linux is easy to use... for geeks like all of you and me, but for people who don't know the mouse from the monitor, linux is still far abofe their heads, and again let's face it windows does a good job of keeping them from needing to know the mouse from the monitor which is why windows remains so widespread, it doesn't force you to learn anything and therefore you can't move on to things like linux unless you actively want to learn something and get books

Rubbish. Why are there so many books for windows then????????

you wouldn't be by chance referring to cygwin would you?

Yes indeed, I think that was it.

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As far as the Linux install contraversey, I think installing either Windows or Linux is quite hit-and-miss. Sometimes everything is detected and installed correctly, sometimes not.

The difference for me is that troubleshooting install problems seem more straight forward (even if more complicated) with Linux than with Windows. Often with Windows it makes no sense why you have to do what you did to get things to work.

=============

Knoppix Linux installs real quick (when everything works right, which is often). You boot the CD, then run the hd-install script and about 20 minutes later you have an OS installed and configured with tons of apps installed as well. Windows + Office + CDR stuff + tons of utilities can't even come close in comparison.

I'm using cygwin at work for now, it's doing the job. Eventually I will be able to go all Linux and maybe DOS running on Linux.

OK , i am a t0tal newbie at Linux, imma givin it a stab with rh9, dont know if its the way to go but i just spent 30 bucks on that sams teach ur self in 24 hours book, so im gunna make it the way to go! lol, Anyway i been tryin to get these up2dates workin and i realize the ssl problems but contrary to popular belief i am still stuck. I have verified the md5sums, reinstalled them, been in root, i think everything, I really think i am going to enjoy Linux once i get it going but it seems like im at a halt and i could really use some help, I use the gaim name of "blacklung1976", Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!!! thanx in advance

we need more info, the up2date rpm can be installed as shown on the redhat network site

download the RH 9 rpm files..

https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2003-267.html

rpm --checksig -v up2date-3.1.23.2-1.i386.rpm up2date-gnome-3.1.23.2-1.i386.rpm


rpm -Fvh up2date-3.1.23.2-1.i386.rpm up2date-gnome-3.1.23.2-1.i386.rpm

Any errors?

once installed you can register and create the profile for your machine.


up2date --register



check here to activate your product if you bought it.

https://www.redhat.com/now/

Everybody has their good and bad days with Linux. I know I have. Two things you need, lots of time and patience. In this wonderful fast paced world we live in, those two things happen to be what alot of people don't have. I happen to have both so it's somewhat easy for me when it comes to researching out what I need in order to get something to run right in linux. I have tried like hell to get Mandrake 9.1 to do what I need it to do...and I finally succeeded except for a couple of small things I am not willing to give up. Quicken which I run on the other harddrive under Windows 2000 (which I love and runs great) and a calendar program. Gnucash I just don't WANT to use. I like the way Quicken operates over Gnucash. I still use Windows but I have been using Linux alot more. It's not because I "hate" Windows or I think Bill Gates doesn't deserve every penny he makes, I just wanted variety and an alternative. So currently on my network I have Windows 2000, Win 98SE, Mandrake 9.1, and OpenBSD 3.2. All are good...all work great...but out of all of them Linux by far took the most time to configure and get ready. Someone asked me some time ago if I remembered the first time I started with computers and how hard it was. Actually it wasn't. Learning Windows 3.1 was not that difficult. If moving a mouse and clicking on icons is difficult then there are other issues that need to be addressed. hahahahaha
DOS took the most time for me. But then as time went by things got easier with plug and play and all that wonderful stuff. Windows is great. It's a nice running program and it's progressed throughout versions as does Linux. Otherwise it wouldn't be a multibillion dollar company...I'm sure they didn't "pull the wool" over everyones eyes and there are that many gullible people around the world. If you have the time and patience...stick with Linux. If not...hey, use Windows. Practically everyone else in the world does. Or buy a Mac. Good stuff that Mac. Strong for years and years.

Okay, I only read the first page of posts for this, so I don't claim to have read all of the responses. But, as in all good rants, here's my opinion, it's worth what you paid for it.

Windows is, has been and always will be the OS for people who want to accomplish a task without knowing how to actually do it. And at any cost (just look at the sticker!). I stayed as far from Windows as I could until it became necessary for me to either learn how to access the Web (and most other networks) from DOS or switch to Windows. The point here is that it has become a necessary evil for people who don't give a rip *how* they accomplish their task, as long as it gets done.

The problems with this approach are many. First, you get what MicroSlop sells you - not necessarily what you need. Second, you get the sloppiest code (and highest drain on resources) that money can buy. This leads to (un)necessary hardware upgrades, software updates and labor expense. Unless your time isn't worth anything. Third, you end up with a lot of stuff you don't need, or want, but you can't do anything about that - it's part-and-parcel of MS policy.

I do use Windows. But I am far more impressed with what Linux can do with my old (not dead, yet) systems than what Windows is doing with on my 1.7GHz Celeron.

IMHO