Nah, esperanto is so lame it is likely to promote the laziness that some appear to take as an insult. Considering that this is a computer related board, I suggest that we settle on binary. Then we can have an argument about charsets

Try this for an example http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...h-10.3-691975/

billymayday - you have made my point. Most of his threads seem to be solved in one fashion or the other. I did not see where a mod had to change any of the posts.

A couple of questions:

Were you forced to read and or respond to the threads?

Are you afraid that one day the OP may be able to compete for your job?

What happens to members if LQ starts selecting the threads to be posted?

Should Jeremy start another LQ for newbies or threads that would not be acceptable here?

The use of english language is constantly evolving and the prevalence of users for whom english is not their first language means that posts along the lines being criticised here are likely only to increase.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/...html?full=true
That aside, the old computer principle of garbage in- garbage out still prevails.
A question that fails to communicate successfully the problem that a user is experiencing will not generate any useful reply.

If it is apparent that English isn't the posters native language, I'll cut them a lot of slack. I remember when I tried to teach myself Russian. It's not easy.

And despite all that, mistakes made by non-native speakers differ usally from common mistakes made by native speakers.

I trust most native speakers can easily distinguish (and do cut some slack) a posting which reads just a little "off" somehow and has a handful of mistakes included which can easily explained by the difference in usage in their native language. (Lack of prepositions and pronouns for example...)

I see a very high tolerance level in this forum to actually answer even the crudest written question.

That is not a rule nor should it ever be allowed to become one. (That is, if your intention is to help others.) After all you're always free to ask for clarification. Nudging 'em in the right direction in a friendly way while you're doing that may or may not help. But if your intention is not to help the OP with the question at hand you're equally free to pass up on that one and move on to another thread. Especially if this LQ member was asked to change already in that or another thread. There really is no need for having three or more people emphasise things. Also remember that as long as the OP contains enough keywords for searchengines to find it you're not only offering suggestions and solutions for that particular LQ member but for the benefit of others as well.

There are are two important aspects to posting a question in a forum. First is the ability to pose a cogent question in which you describe the problem and then state what steps you’ve taken to solve it. Second is the use of language that can be understood by a large enough proportion of readers that someone will try to answer your question.

Framing questions takes time and effort. Using clear language to state the question after you know what you want to say also requires time and effort. In today’s world though many people want an answer immediately if not sooner.

Add to this mix the confusion of people whose first language is not English plus those who write like they’re sending a quick text message and the problem is compounded by several magnitudes.

IMO the speed with which you can expect to get a resolution to your problem is directly proportional to the effort you take in making your needs understood.

Hi,
Well said!

The point that I was trying to make was that there is a continuum in the way that questions are presented, ranging from clearly presented questions written by articulate native english speakers through questions that are intelligible but would be considered poorly presented by a native english speaker through to questions that fail to convey any meaning at all.
The article that I linked in my post describes the phenomenon of how english usage is changed by non-native speakers, often in ways that do not sit well with native speakers. It also highlights that non-native english speakers using english to communicate are actually the majority.
I am confident that inspection of my posting history would show that I am prepared to make the effort to understand a question that on the first read is difficult and that I am prepared to ask for clarification.
However I have also seen posts that I found so unintelligible that I have just passed on. They were the target of GIGO.

Hi,
Yes, composition continuity is important especially with technical presentations. For some it is just plain hard to compose a query that is understandable by a native English speaker or not. Most mis-use terminology by attempting to communicate with it by not knowing the proper definition add to that 'netspeak' along with 'techspeak' then things compound.

With the advent of the Internet along with wikis with content that is not always correct you find that the presentation will be confusing for all. Don't get me wrong, I find and use the Internet for a lot of my reference but I do read what I reference so as to provide a somewhat complete response.

Some should be required to do a little work on their part instead of spoon feeding of the information or performance of an action to get to the final solution. Sure cookbooks are fine but not always the proper solution for technical actions, to many variables.

It is difficult for a non English speaker to compose a good query but when I see the netspeak and techspeak mis-use by these presenters then I do see problems. Why compound by the poor use?
Some feel it's cool but not when you must convey information so as to provide clear concise information that will allow the 'helper' to assist the requester.

I don't see what are you suggesting. If you are asking for change in the rules, than this thread should belong to "LQ Suggestions & Feedback".

One very important thing "people that defend good english" should keep in mind.
Some people that write poor questions with a lot of types are actually sane/smart people in offline. I knew several people that were good/smart/friendly/intellegent persons in normal life, but once you were talking with them on ICQ/email you saw 14yr old netspeaking "haxxor" instead of them, simply because they weren't using to type much (not anyone can touch-type with speed of 300 cps and 1% of errors), weren't used to forums, and didn't know "how thing should be done/asked the right way", and when you saw what they write (50% of errors, poor spelling, etc.) your brain immediately created picture of brain-dead lamer. It is actually very interesting feeling, especially when you know who you are really to.
I think that such people are at least 50% of internet users. They also won't understand when experienced users ask them to read forum rules, "how to ask questions the smart way", and so on, because it is not how things work in questions that aren't related to computers. The also can get offended because of such requests.
Personally, I do not know how to deal with such characters. Eventually they might learn the way things work on linux forums, but this is not guaranteed.

Hi,
Read the jest of the thread!

I'm not defending good English but stating that to make a clear concise post would benefit all.

Maybe so with people that are sane/smart when offline but to read or edit a post before a submit is not that difficult. Typos are one thing but to use 'netspeak' is another. If this was 'AOL' or 'AIM' type of communication then there would not be a problem since that is the normal format for that type of forum.

I disagree! The 'How to Ask Questions the Smart Way' could be used universally. Some good reasoning and thought was put into that composition.

I just took your line to start my general remark with. I'm sorry for any confusion, it was not directed at you personally.

At this point, given this thread has run for three pages, may I ask what would be the three most valuable tips to offer? I'm curious to find out if there's actually three concise ones that could help newcomers improve the quality of their posts.