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Old 08-26-2013, 11:02 AM   #61
brianL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokytnji View Post
Edit made me grin. I know. A serious thread but I figured to be myself and have some fun.

Attachment 13276
Like it. LOL.
Yeah, why not? Most of the world's problems are caused by people taking things seriously.
 
Old 08-26-2013, 01:41 PM   #62
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In for Lunch. Don't take my posts wrong. To be frank. I don't know if killer whales and dolphins and other life forms have the capability of abstract thought.

It kinda makes me wish telepathy would evolve quicker.
 
Old 08-26-2013, 03:26 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokytnji View Post
I don't know if killer whales and dolphins and other life forms have the capability of abstract thought.
Not quite sure about that, but isn't a certain level of abstraction needed to create and use tools?
 
Old 08-26-2013, 04:16 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Not quite sure about that, but isn't a certain level of abstraction needed to create and use tools?
I would think that there would certainly need to be a pretty good idea of how the tool would work before it was made. Someone, or something, has an idea has a mental image of it and then makes that tool in the image and tests it out to see if they were correct.
 
Old 08-26-2013, 04:20 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
In that case are we talking about Homo Sapiens evolution and homo gene that is unique(key word) for some reason or Evolution in general for every species on Earth?
Read the OP and the tags, they supply the answer to your question and also supply the key words. Things outside that scope (such as religious symbolism or terminologies, comspiracy theories, etc etc etc.) are outside the scope of this thread.
 
Old 08-26-2013, 04:25 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus View Post
It should not be off-topic, because I interpret the OP to include general discussion of evolution, not only ours.
Your interpretation is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
I don't mind if other questions of a similar (evolution) nature are asked, the idea of this thread is to foster open discussion but more importantly relevant discussion.
 
Old 08-26-2013, 06:37 PM   #67
Randicus Draco Albus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
Not really true..music pleasure is much more different from casual rewards.
What is a casual reward? However you define it, it is irrelevant. A reward is a reward. Some rewards are tangible: food, warmth, procreation. Other rewards are emotional; they bring enjoyment.

Quote:
Tell me then how can children learn foreign language
The same way they learn everything else.

Quote:
(i learned basic english this way myself so when i started learning english at school i already knew lot of stuff - if i would be exposed more who knows..some people say they learned a lot by plain watching) watching just cartoons and movies and other TV material then if it is just reward?
It seems you are claiming people can learn from watching (good) television. That is no different from learning by watching others and imitating them. So what is your point?

Quote:
Art is something much more complicated yet brilliant result that prooves something is missing..
This looks like an attempt to prove the hand of God.
 
Old 08-26-2013, 08:41 PM   #68
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End of my day. My statement about abstract thought had more to do with beauty, inner harmony, and relationships than with industrial applications.

A dolphin or Whale or Octopus or Squid has no need for the wheel or fire or wrenches. That is my turf. I marvel at how us folks can imagine a rocket ship
carburettor but cannot get along with his neighbor. It is a wonderment. You can build the Taj Mahal but can't end war.

I am not a spiritual type myself. But I do have the sense to wonder about things. So, increased blood flow to the brain huh. I am just a ignorant southern boy but that sounds pretty weak to me also. How is it we have more breakers/switches that cause us pleasure/rewards than other creatures. That is what I was referring to about not knowing if Aquatic mammals and cephalopods (spell checker is yelling at me) are capable of abstract thought.
 
Old 08-26-2013, 09:13 PM   #69
Randicus Draco Albus
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It all stems from what I mentioned earlier. If a random genetic mutation increases the chance of surviving long enough to reproduce, that mutation will become part of the genome. If the mutations are a different way of synapses connecting; increased blood flow; larger cranium, and consequently larger brain; the result will be a smarter species. Self-awareness and abstract thinking will be results of the more complex brain. In other words, it was an accident.
 
Old 08-26-2013, 11:53 PM   #70
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If a random genetic mutation
That is the crux of the biscuit I was looking for. So only we were subject to random genetic mutation. I wonder what caused this mutation. Maybe the mass extinction event that almost wiped us out?

Solar Flare? Sure would be nice to know what was the primer. Maybe one of ya know?
One minute we have fire hardened stick spears. The next we are bringing Mammoths
down with stone tipped sticks and building huts out of tusks.

Quote:
These are among the mental abilities that many anthropologists say distinguished humans, Homo sapiens, from other hominids. Yet researchers have no agreed-upon definition of exactly what makes human cognition so special.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scienc...160374925.html

I have not read all of that link yet so mainly my post is layman conjecture.
 
Old 08-27-2013, 12:10 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by rokytnji View Post
So only we were subject to random genetic mutation.
No everything is subject to random mutation, some things more than others.

Basically mutation occurs due to various factors, some are environmental others just happen.
 
Old 08-27-2013, 12:40 AM   #72
Randicus Draco Albus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokytnji View Post
So only we were subject to random genetic mutation. I wonder what caused this mutation.
Mutations do not need to be caused and usually have no cause that results in a change. I am not a geneticist, so cannot explain (and do not even know the minute details), but basically a mutation happens when genes (or chromosomes? See, not an expert by any means.) combine in a new way. Most of these chance occurrences have no effect. An example would be the appearance of a new colour shade to hair or eyes. Some individuals would have that colour, while others, probably most, would not. If, however, the new colour provided an advantage, such as making it easier to blend in with the surroundings, more individuals with that colour would survive and the colour would become increasingly more common. Eventually, probably all members of the species will have this camouflage.
 
Old 08-27-2013, 03:41 AM   #73
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Genes are in a group of things called Allelomporph, or allele for short. An allele can have various forms within its group meaning that for every allele there is you can have multiple versions of genes within that "group". Some genes, as Randicus has pointed out, don't get passed on so they disappear and have no real effect on the species overall while others continue on and to a certain extent get "cemented" into the gene pool within groups or a species as a whole.

This is the single biggest thing that explained evolution within a species at a satisfactory level for me to understand what happens and to personally believe it is true.
 
Old 08-27-2013, 05:26 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus View Post
Mutations do not need to be caused and usually have no cause that results in a change. I am not a geneticist, so cannot explain (and do not even know the minute details), but basically a mutation happens when genes (or chromosomes? See, not an expert by any means.) combine in a new way. Most of these chance occurrences have no effect. An example would be the appearance of a new colour shade to hair or eyes. Some individuals would have that colour, while others, probably most, would not. If, however, the new colour provided an advantage, such as making it easier to blend in with the surroundings, more individuals with that colour would survive and the colour would become increasingly more common. Eventually, probably all members of the species will have this camouflage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_mutation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transposon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiosis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome_nondisjunction
 
Old 08-27-2013, 06:13 AM   #75
k3lt01
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Where is your discussion? Posting links shows nothing except that you can post links.
 
  


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