Very old news, this has been going on longe before 9/11 and any counter terrorism stuff. Any old Workgroup (pretty much any laser with the lcd menu panel) HP printer embeds the s/n in a tiny dot on the paper. If you don't like it just go into the service menu and clear the S/N

This is very old news, its been known for years. Its also very easy to defeat. Since laser printers have to be servicable, if the main baord were to fail and need replaced then the serial number must be put back into the new board to match what is on the chassis. Its extremly easy to enter the service menu and change the serial number to anything you want.

Go ahead, say it. Or did you mean, perhaps, a Quisling Quip?

I've done some work with the Army's CID, and what many counterfeiters do is take $1 bills and bleach them. Then print 20s, 50s, and 100s on the paper.

In those cases, the toner will be glossy (and if the counterfeiters try running the notes in the dryer with stones or something to weather them, the toner will flake off), the embedded strip will be wrong, the watermark won't be correct, AND the color-shifting ink will not be present - this doesn't even take into account the IR imprints that professionals can use to check notes (just need an IR camera and monitor). Again, those who get fooled deserve the lesson.

Both printer threads have now been merged. Because they are abou the same thing.

Guys!!
Most of you are still missing/avoiding the thrust of my original post which was original entitled "Wot the f***?!?". Personally, I couldn't care about the details of why print tracker programmes are embedded in printers, nor whether they can be outmaneuvered (because, let's face it - this is exactly the same cat-and-mouse crap that spurred on the Cold War). I don't care because if not embedded printer trackers, then what next? It doesn't matter. The point is two-fold:

1. Do we as computer enthusiasts of varying degrees of skill and aptitude have an ethical responsibility to not be complicit in our own subjugation by computer technologies? If so, what would that look like? How might an ethical paradigm of resistance to subjugation unfold? How would that effect our programming practices, or our choices in what goods we purchase, support or companies we work for?

2. A related point is more confrontational in its political implications: why on earth are the governments of so-called free nations spying on their citizens and what can we do - as citizens - to put a stop to it? Personally, I am sick of Blair & Bush & their cronies lying to us about other nations and their alleged intentions; of using bull*t to convince us to engage in pre-emptive strikes and thereby committing illegal acts of warfare (irrespective of what we think of Hussein and his ilk); who use subterfuge and deceit to pass restrictive and insidiously controlling laws on the strength of our fears and our blithe gullibility to just trust the government; and of the general way that we are each being led down the slippery slope according to a hidden agenda of a small, powerful group of men who we elected and yet who remain, finally, unaccountable to we, the people.

Let me reiterate. As far as I was concerned, these were the reasons why I posted. Interesting as to the details and the speculations about why the code was written to track printed copies, the fact still remains unassailably self-evident: the government believes us to be untrustworthy. Meanwhile, they are to all intents and purposes our employees, should be working for us ... but I just don't see a whole bunch of representativity here. How dare they call us untrustworthy when it is they with the hidden, diabolical, agendas of usurpation, infiltration, sabotage and espionage, deceit and spin. Shame on them.

Thank you enine....You simplified one of the points I was trying to make. Thanks to the EFF's (and a few others) ignorance, now the counterfeiters know about this code too, SWEET!...However...If the EFF and th ACLU or most of the other civil liberties groups would learn when to keep their mouths shut on certain issues and understand that sometimes Big Brother isn't out to control the general population, just the dark element, the 'bad seeds' might find it a little more difficult to pray on the rest of us. In this whole discussion I have heard a lot of complaining about how our civil liberties are being eroded by the government. I just wonder if it has occurred to anyone that the 'dark elements' in our social structure are very happy with the fact that civil rights organizations are protecting the criminals rights to pray on the law abiding general population when the EFF goes around blabbing about things such as this printer ID issue. Now the crooks know, now they can find a way around it and guess what...They WILL! This is just the type of thing the criminal element is looking for, informers in the name of freedom. It makes me wonder who's rights these civil liberties organizations are actually protecting. If you want to talk about being cattle or sheep or the like, think about this. The criminal or the terrorist or the radical is hoping that we as a society will do all we can to defend our right to be totally free from any form of protection. It just makes their job a lot easier to take us down and take unfair advantage of us, even to the point of taking our unsuspecting 'totally free' lives. The criminal element does not give a d*** about your civil liberties and would just as soon see the unsuspecting lot of us have total freedom to do as we please without them having to worry about getting caught. I really have a hard time believing that terrorists or criminals are going to read you your Maranda rights just before they rob you blind, blow your head off, fly a plane into a major commercial center or bomb you to pieces in a subway suicide attack. If some of the well meaning freedom fighting types out there have their way we will all be sitting on the banks of the beautiful river, drinking milk and honey and singing songs about how free we are. Of course, we would all be oblivious to the wolves, jackals and buzzards lurking just outside our little conclave waiting for the most opportune moment to strike our unprotected albeit free and happy little group.

Get real folks...The world is full of 'bad guys' and for my part I would much rather know someone is doing something to keep these snakes away from me than to watch law enforcement have to stand helplessly by while we get fleeced or worse because we have bound and gagged them with our own civil liberties. While protecting our freedoms and civil liberties is important, we need to draw the line somewhere. Individually we are in anarchy, collectively we have order. We have elected officials who are tasked with managing that order and sometimes we will not like the fact that to do this requires a little sacrifice and even secrecy. The people on the other hand have a responsibility to make sure management doesn't get out out hand and abuse their responsibilities, but not by being so blantently ignorant as to tie the hands of these officials with the 'violation of civil liberties' handcuffs or by thwarting every attempt law enforcement makes in an effort to keep information out of the hands of the criminals or to secretly investigate them. We might as well just publish everything we are doing to to fight the criminal element...Give away every possible secret weapon we use to combat them. In my opinon the EFF 'cracking the printer code' borders on an act of treachery against the people. They just gave away a tool that might have been helpful in combating crime and terrorism. Maybe we should just give away all our state secrets to some oppressive dictator...There is a thought.

Whatever your opinion on the Middle East war is, for or against it, the fact is we are in the middle of it. If we can't keep our mouths shut and expect to give up a little privacy in exchange for a modicum of security we just may find ourselves being stepped on by terrorists, bullies and killers just because we have to know everything our government does and we don't want the government to know anything about us. Keep in mind...If 'We the People' know everthing, it's a good bet the opposition does too. The only difference is that the opposition will use this freedom of information against us. This not only applies to external threats, but to internal threats as well. The printer code and counterfeiting issue goes a little deeper than just some petty crook looking to make a fast buck. Counterfeiting is a well known weapon used in an effort to undermine a nations economy. Even the US has used this tactic.

Even if this printer code were to be used to track possible subversive elements, I can asure you I would rather have my printer ID'd by law enforcement than I would my body parts after a suicide bombing. I would be history because law enforcement was forbidden to use this printer code to track down the origin of a correspondance detailing a terrorist attack thereby keeping them from possibly pinning down the potential killers and bringing them to justice before they carried out their evil plan. All because it would violate the peoples civil liberties to use such a code.

Look beyond your noses and you may see what's really going on. Is the fence built to keep the people in or to keep the wolves out? I have a feeling the latter is more probable. The choice is up to us.

making you afraid is always the first step in taking your freedom.

d00bid00b: I've been really impressed with this post of yours:

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...58#post1910358

It's good to know that there are people out there with the energy and skills to see through the smoke and dispel myths. We must keep vigilants.

isd2301's recent post is the other side of this thing. To which I'll respond:

Throughout history, all governments have been oppresive and this "democracy" thing just happens every four or five years. It's impossible to any person being in power not to be corrupted by it. Historically, we have identified with those that break the law and we've been suspicious of every government. Let me state something that may freak some: we have the right to break the law too. In many ways I feel that I've got something to hide: be it a Carlos Castaneda's book, be it a marijuana joint in my pot-smoking days. We all can't just trust the government because we're used to its abuse. Maybe we have this itch psychic or genetically coded inside, who knows?

The scandal here is that we're dealing with companies that does not tell us the whole thing. They work for the government, whatever it may be. (e.g. Volkswagen and the nazis, Ford, etc.) Most governments now are like specimen with a life of their own that we never had the power to manage. They choose for us the ways that we must be secure. I love this quote from Benjamin Franklin:

The government (in many countries) does know what you read in a public library... What right they have to do this? Their job has been to convince everyone that we are in danger. I hate this whole "terrorist paranoia conspiracy" these times when we must reverse the damage done in the planet. The terrorists and politicians are the major players and they're same meat of s**t. They do enjoy the whole media attention and hysteria. They will keep exploiting it until we suddenly become immune to it or we all find new toys. To eliminate terrorism, we (the people) must be the ones implementing ways to really prevent it. We're amassing a body of knowledge that we can't handle. I've been thinking that these things that have been happening will require a total change in consciousness on planet Earth. The ones that keep the most precious and scarse resources, should accept to contribute them to fix the problems currently affecting mankind, and I guess it'd be hard.

The only problem that i have with this is that there was no real 'disclosure'. There are many, many so called intrusions into our lives due to technology. But the public should be informed.

I ask you - if you're family were to be kidnapped, and as a result of the ransom note being printed on a laser printer, they were rescued... ... would you still be moaning?


You must know that the nsa/fbi use much more invasive techniques, and have told us about them. This includes a system called 'carnivore' which scans internet traffic. Also, you can very, very easily be physically tracked by your cellphone - in real time and in the past (that's how they caught one of the london bombers). Other communications are monitored as well. Your atm card and credit cards leave trails that can and will be used if you are suspect - all the more so since sep11. It is good and bad.

Be informed and be smart - but don't worry about printed dots (exception given to the artists who have commercial and aesthetic issues).

edit: forgot to mention video cameras recording you almost everyplace in any fair-sized city nowadays. It really has become big brother - hasn't it??

Afraid of what? Being attacked? That's not fear, that's FACT...And what's more it's not going to go away unless we take steps to stop being attacked. This includes a little subversion and clandestine action from our leadership...Without having a bunch of civil libertarians doing things like cracking their codes and shooting their mouths off about it. This sort of thing would probably have gotten them arrested for espionage in the 40's and 50's. But today, thanks to our freedom of information laws no one can touch them. The passing of The Freedom of Information Act doesn't exactly sound like the government is taking away our freedom does it?

If you think you can use rhetoric to convince the extremist radicals that they should play nice, by all means go ahead and try. Someone will be by as soon as they can to bring back your head. Making people afraid is a terrorist trick and the terrorists ARE out to take away your freedom or take away your life if you don't fall into line with them. And you can D*** well bet...THEY aren't about to give away any of their secrets!

Oh Yeah... Forgot to ask this. Is it true that the internet started out as a government project designed to exchange military, scientific and security information within the government? If so, how did it get out of their control?

well, more people will die in a week from pollution than the "terrorists" will kill in a year. that's just a fact, too. you don't seem so pumped full of fear about that though -- of course not, because that would cut into corporate profits too much and hurt people like bush's industry friends who are making all the money from it. so when it comes to real dangers like pollution, the population gets programmed to deny most of those.

better to keep the focus on the amorphous "terrorists" and keep raising the "terror alert" whenever they need to distract you, to keep you buying duct tape and plastic so you'll be a little easier to control. easier to take your freedoms, too, with the big fear of the terrorists coming to get you that they've got you thinking about night and day. i'm very sure chula vista, california is high on the terrorist hit list.

Being surrounded by the US Navy's Pacific Fleet, I would have to say yes to your last statement. We are about 15 miles south of San Diego right on the coast and Imperial Beach NAS is about 5 miles from my home.

Oh, and the Mexican border is about 4 miles south of where I live.

granted then that you might be of increased risk compared to most. the point remains, however, that for the great majority of people in the US, who will likely never come within a thousand miles of any terrorist activity, there are much more relevant concerns to have. and when they are instilled instead with vague fear of "terrorists," that's the first step to getting them to agree to having their liberties taken.