Because Shiny Things Are Fun - The New New Windows v Linux Thread

Originally Posted by Linux_Kidd ... in monolithic or microkernel mode?

There is only a bloatkernel Linux.

Unless you're free the strip it down!

In the end everything is open source, why else would corporations and "law$" complain about it so much...

Originally Posted by YesItsMe There is only a bloatkernel Linux.

hmmm, does bloatkernel mean more features, or something other?

Originally Posted by sevendogsbsd No, I actually stopped using FreeBSD as my desktop. I love Steam games too much so started using Void linux. Everything works perfectly except for Fallout 3 in wine - crashes immediately. I'll figure it out eventually, not a deal breaker. Wanted a non-systemd distro and it is perfect for me.

You said Mac before, that's a NeXT BSD bastard unix OS, no? What am I missing?

Not a clue - it's actually certified as "Unix" but only because Apple paid the OpenGroup to certify it. All I know is it just works, it works extremely well and it isn't any of the shite put out by those idiots in Redmond.

macOS's open source core ("Darwin") is loosely based on FreeBSD 5 if I remember correctly, but it has diverged a lot. Anyway, macOS - starting with "Mac OS X" which was the successor to NeXTSTEP with a thin Mac OS emulation layer - uses a hybrid kernel which is more similar to the Hurd than to both FreeBSD's kernel and Linux.

Originally Posted by YesItsMe There is only a bloatkernel Linux.

Interesting, so Wind River REAL TIME Linux, has a "bloatkernel", eh? I guess "bloatkernel" must be some phrase with I'm not familiar, some phrase which is a synonym for "really fast".

There are good reasons why microkernel systems like QNX are much more common in the Real Time world.

Just to show how strange the world is now.

Did this because all my wifes friends and co-workers use this, She asked. So I complied. Have not used the app yet though.

  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/teams.list 
  1: deb [arch=amd64] https://packages.microsoft.com/repos/ms-teams stable main
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/various.list

I can honestly state this came about during the corona virus outbreak. Conspiracy?

People actually multiple less than somethings?

Originally Posted by YesItsMe There are good reasons why microkernel systems like QNX are much more common in the Real Time world.

Unfortunately, there are almost always trade offs. Years ago I worked with a nice little RTOS known as pSOS. It was so nice it was even chosen to run on each of the processors of a supercomputer. But the less memory something takes, even if it's small because it's written in an assembly language, the less it is likely to be able to do. To do more, other code needed to be added to pSOS. AFAIK, you'll find pSOS isn't very popular today. As a separate issue, offloading what are classically kernel functions into User Space, then talking about a smaller kernel, is just sort of cheating by way of terminology.

Originally Posted by rigor Unfortunately, there are almost always trade offs. Years ago I worked with a nice little RTOS known as pSOS. It was so nice it was even chosen to run on each of the processors of a supercomputer. But the less memory something takes, even if it's small because it's written in an assembly language, the less it is likely to be able to do. To do more, other code needed to be added to pSOS. AFAIK, you'll find pSOS isn't very popular today. As a separate issue, offloading what are classically kernel functions into User Space, then talking about a smaller kernel, is just sort of cheating by way of terminology.

Although true, that does not negate the fact of a kernel being "light" if everything else that is needed is in some other place. "Don't worry sir, the back of the truck is not heavily loaded", but fail to tell him that the 20tons of good were loaded toward the front of the truck, which make no diff when on the scales.

To your point, looking at an OS from just the kernel view is often times pointless and/or just not meaningful, need to look at it from the "system" point of view. Input a problem and need an output, the in-between is what matters. I've done this exercise for a CAD system I put together. Using a Xeon cpu is kinda sucky in many ways, but great for CAD when coupled with ECC ram w/ tuned mem cache (TY to MS for out-of-the-box not supporting Xeon cache correctly).

Perhaps I was in too much of a hurry, as I often am. Maybe I should have quoted "There is only a bloatkernel Linux.", so that someone didn't have to go back to see the history of the comments. It was really about the phrase "bloatkernel" that I was commenting. Suppose someone wants to use purple paint. But instead of getting purple paint, they do this:

1. get red paint
2. get blue paint
3. mix red and blue to form purple
4. complain about having to mix red and blue paint

In that situation I would tend to think that the complaint is rather surprising and inappropriate.

When it comes to the phrase "bloatkernel", AFAIK the word "bloat" is a negative categorization. Yet there are quite a variety of established forms of Linux, even apart from what someone might produce via LFS. I feel that even if someone might consider some of them "bloated", there is such a variety of them, that it would seem hard to consider such a sweeping categorization as valid.

Windows has grown a package manager now.

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/comma...nager-preview/