mad at MS -- yes/no

some of there practices - yes
tiring to kill of non Microsoft programs and languages
like Netscape - they did
like Sun Java - they finally gave up
like Flash - might be giving up ??? a bit unknown
like OpenGL - a very HOT cold war

Me and Bill Gates have moved this thread to General.

problem is it isn't just M$ that is the problem, it's the industry in general, M$ is just one symptom of a systemic issue of the computer industry keeping the consumer under their thumb by keeping them in the dark as to alternatives for the purpose of linking their own pockets M$ is only one of the most notable for cut-throat policies, but ultimately it is up to the consumer to be aware of what it is they are consuming, and sadly many average users plain don't care as long as their computer works and does what they want, which is sad in a way because things like silverlight are just the tip of a much bigger iceberg

to name my main gripes
1) microsoft dominates the desktop OS market with its bloated crap with so many security holes that viruses/spyware run rampant
2) computers have become a disposable commodity (instead of being able to FIX or upgrade computers we just toss them out when they break/get old and buy a new one, filling the landfills with a toxic stew of lead, mercury, arsenic, phosphorous, etc..)
3) computers are becoming more and more 'dumbed down', taking away advanced features for people to actually LEARN how their computers work

@ the 3 gripes

1) You're point being? People still use it and accept it. It's what's taught in school. It's what comes pre installed. If a large OEM manufacture and provide a version of windows that only adds $50 or so to the sale price, you are going to have a hard time competing when your computers cost twice as much and comes with linux.

2) This is why we need to make sure people know that they must recycle this stuff. That includes your music player and cell phone. Almost everything sold to USAmericans is disposable. Just look at all the cheaply made Home and Garden products with faux aged finishes. Nobody actually buys something well made to let it naturally age that way. Examine some t-shirts or pants the next time you buy some. The stitching is often horrible and the material is garbage but it sells for more because of the brand.

3) I suppose you know every detail of how your car works? What about your TV, game console, printer, microwave, faxmachine, cell phone, gps, bank card? Or how a grocery store is stocked. You don't need to know how it functions to use it. This should be transparent to users. They don't need to know about every detail of the system software just to use it. In fact, a lot of people using linux are just the same as those using windows. They know how to use the package manager, manage users, customize settings through a gui, and install devices. If anything this should make computer professionals happy. It's job security if somebody can't fix their computer on their own.


I don't bother to point out what's wrong with society. I just know there is no recovery from it. So life goes on.

Allow me to disagree... recovery starts within yourself, within myself, within anyone willing to stand up and start the change within himself way before starting to change anything else...

So... get to know how things work... gain knowledge, and use this knowledge... do what is right within the knowledge you gained...

Strengthen your mind, read, play chess, meditate, master a martial art, become highly profficient within your skills... just do it because one day you may need it... learn the intrincacies of everything related to computer security, since computers will be centerpieces of life in time to come... master the specifics and the science of warfare engineering, probably this will be usefull one day... study your opponents - politicians, corporate managers, crooky leaders, - so that you can unleash a decisive blow if they ever mess with you... I am divagating, but you get the spirit... :


THERES'S A WAR GOING ON, A SILENT ONE, BUT NONETHELESS A WAR... ARE YOU QUITTING WITHOUT PUTTING UP THE FIERCEST FIGHT EVER... ??!! IF YOU ARE GOING TO LOSE IN THE END, MAKE THEM PAY FOR IT... BANZAII

Information IS POWER, they used it and abused it to overwhelm you, and everyone else... NOW IT'S PAYBACK TIME...

@Frieza,

Of course, your are right, right and right about the points you mention.

System admins having followed many MS trainings take MS for granted, and actually make a lot of many using, repairing and upgrading MS installations. Why would they bother with anything else, this is their pure existence.
MS is not about software, it is about a complete industry, all tied to a single platform. As long as there are many many people making a living out of it no one opposes. Virus scanners, unnecessary tools, unnecessary applications, vaporware, everyone is happy with a substandard system.

As for throwing away perfectly good hardware, just not able to run the latest version of MS products? You don't think that anyone care for that? You should know how big an industry that hardware replacement business is. Too bad a time clock was not invented yet which blows up the system after exactly two years. Stimulate wear, it increases consumption!

Really, a technically better system will never survive at the cost of a technically worse system if the latter has better content, price or marketing. As long as everyone makes profit from something technically inferior, it is there to stay. It is money that counts, not idealism.

jlinkels

Sure there are blow up clocks... When the manufacture uses substandard capacitors. I suppose you could always put it in the bios to stop booting, or put a boot counter in it.

How is the large size of the company a handicap? Shouldn't that be more resources to achieve a more reliable OS?

Haha.

Read F.P. Brooks: "The Mythical Man-month" and you know the opposite is true.

jlinkels

Haha wow this thread really blew up.
yeah I'm annoyed at both Microsoft and Apple.
It pisses me off a little that for one itunes has been available for years for mac and windows and never for linux and for two that they make the Ipod software complex enough that other programs can't take full advantage of it. Now that has been an easy one to live without. There are other programs that will work ok and beyond that the next music player I buy wont be an Apple product.
For things like netflix though there aren't alternatives. Well there's Hulu which is great. I don't know why they don't push harder to be a serious player against something like netflix. I didn't know there were so many national lampoon movies but you rarely see anything new or top shelf.

The more I thought about it though the more I realize I shouldn't be complaining to Netflix or comcast that Silverlight doesn't support Linux but instead asking WTH they are using it in the first place. Of course with these places I do feel bad giving too much of a hard time to the clueless phone operator. I mean Microsoft that's one thing. I think it's close enough to the death star that even the person answering the phone isn't completely innocent but not Netflix. So anyway I hate yelling at the operators especially figuring my conversation will end up floating around with no special attention payed to why I contacted them but it really makes you want to sit down with the board of directors and say WTH were you thinking.

Another thought is where is Adobe in all of this? Are they trying to stay in the game? Are they pushing Netflix and comcast to use their product? Are they trying to make a site to compete or helping to push Hulu as a flash flagship?
I only skimmed the thread cause it grew so damn long overnight but I thought I saw mention that silverlight was the only DRM but we know that's not true. You know hulu couldn't do what they do without solid DRM.
Anyway I'm glad to see some people talking about this.

Speaking of complex Apple firmware: I have made a few attempts at making modded firmwares for the iPod touch, I was successfull with the PSP by booting up Linux on it, but it was never useful. Thing with the iPod touch was every time I thought I was close.... firmware update OS 3 to OS 4. Curses

Back on point though, does Netflix perhaps use Silverlight because it might use lower bandwidth to play the movies? Simular to the DivX HiQ Web Player they just came out with.

It'd be nice if you are more specific on microsoft's "cut throat" policies...didn't Bill Gates quit Microsoft?

Should everyone become a computer scientist just to use a computer? It doesn't make sense what you are so upset about. Even with open source software, many people still do not know how it works thought they still use it.

Agreed. Just plug it in, turn it on, and it works.

Many Linux users have no idea how Linux works. They can learn about it if they want to, but it is not that easy to learn how it works. Many do not have the time. In fact, I just spent more than 40 hours (and counting) trying to get an RCA k@zoo mp3 player to work with Linux, and it seems like I am back to square one. Many people would just give up after a few hours and use windows! If you want to learn Linux, it is like a second job.

So that is what happened to my last motherboard! #!$@#!

overly restrictive licensing? vaporware?


i know enough to perhaps perform basic repairs if i had to but that wasnt my point

my point, being with linux you CAN easily dive into the nuts and bolts if you wanted to with microsoft products that is much harder to do and im not talking about registry and other advanced stuff i'm talking about really learning how it works

Thats so true, just get a modded BIOS or some other kind of "advanced scientist" mobo and POOF! Advanced features and settings unlocked!

Point is you can still get avanced and customizable features, you just gotta build your own rig, thats why
I built mine is so

a.) Perormance for half the price, and
b.) All settings are wide open to me, no more locked down "user-friendly" BIOS that plague modern PCs.

Which brings up my next point, if the PC is aimed to be user friendly so that people like my mom can play FarmVille, or little kids watch movies, then why make the BIOS so user-friendly? Seems like to me they have no buisness on the BIOS anyway. Because if their OS crashes then somebody that needs a user friendly computer is probably not going to reinstall the OS themselfs, but rather take it to Best Buy so they can pop in a DVD and charge you $100 for it.

Imagine this, an older ladie is using the PC her son got her to video chat with her grand children, if her Windows 7 gets a virus, is she gonna say "Dang Windows crashed, guess I gotta put in that reinstall DVD I downloaded and burnded, change the boot order so the disk drive is first, and then reformat the drive and install." Nope. She is gonna have it fixed by somebody who knows what they are doing. So my point is, OEMs should, of course, make the actual OS user-friendly, but open up the BIOS to the advanced users because we could and would use them.

What are the advanced features? How can you get them unlocked?

BIOS is not so much "user-friendly". They typically have many settings, and a non-geeky person such as your wife, husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, or significant other, mom, dad, grandma, granddad, kids, or pet cat or dog would not know what most if not all of the settings are for. For them, "Just plug it in, turn it on, and it works" is what they like.