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Old 09-10-2010, 07:22 AM   #1
alan_ri
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A man said "Desktop Linux Sucks!"


I've seen two videos on youtube that I believe are interesting and I would say need some discussion. So if you can spare hour and a half, I suggest that you have a look.

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoYL4R3Te2s&NR=1
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkgahANeq14&NR=1
 
Old 09-10-2010, 09:05 AM   #2
PrinceCruise
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The beauty of Open source is if one doesn't get along with one 'kind', he/she can get another kind and tinker it according to the need.
BTW everything sucks
 
Old 09-10-2010, 10:04 AM   #3
onebuck
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Hi,

I've spent some time viewing the links. Bryan does have some valid points within the presentations. Being a year apart does provide the viewer some perspective along with provocation.

The titles 'Desktop Linux Sucks, And What We Can Do About It' & 'Why Desktop Linux (Still) Sucks. What We Can Do To Fix It.' are thought provocative especially after viewing each. Unifying packages across distributions would be great but don't expect that to happen soon if ever. General repository would require massive work & development along with continued maintenance. It's bad enough for distro specific repositories.

His points about financial support within GNU/Linux community to support their desired projects is a valid one. A good business model would have to be flexible and direct in deciding who gets funding and who doesn't. We should have the means to unify the distribution community other than just the kernel. How?

GNU/Linux Desktops for specific distributions can be polished within that community support forums along side with the maintainer(S) but that to can be a cumbersome task(s) to have a universal Desktop that fits all.

Drivers will be the problem for most users for various hardware configs. Until we can unify the handler with the drivers then the problems for system drivers and availability for both open & closed source drivers will be the norm for a lot of the hardware that's out there. Meaning device recognition and passing available drivers properly then the problems will be had for most newer supported hardware. Add to that bleeding edge hardware with minimalistic drivers then the Desktop user will have to sacrifice until the refined driver(s) are available.

How to force manufactures to provide services & docs? Or other information to develop drivers for the GNU/Linux community will be a problem for awhile. That is until the GNU/Linux Desktop is taken as a serious contender.

 
Old 09-10-2010, 11:41 AM   #4
dv502
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Every OS has their quirks, but I rather live with linux's quirks than window$.

Last edited by dv502; 09-10-2010 at 12:04 PM.
 
Old 09-10-2010, 01:16 PM   #5
H_TeXMeX_H
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I don't care for watching videos about how much Linux sucks, I already know how much it sucks, and that's why I use it and will never use Window$ again. If you give me some about how much Window$ sucks, and they're funny, I might watch them.

P.S.

I don't think GNU/Linux needs fixing, because nothing is broken, IMO. For me everything works, if it doesn't work for you, post on LQ and I may be able to help. I refuse to believe people that tell me Linux is broken and needs fixing. I'm sorry but Window$ is broken and cannot be fixed.

Last edited by H_TeXMeX_H; 09-10-2010 at 01:20 PM.
 
Old 09-10-2010, 03:12 PM   #6
rob.rice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
I don't care for watching videos about how much Linux sucks, I already know how much it sucks, and that's why I use it and will never use Window$ again. If you give me some about how much Window$ sucks, and they're funny, I might watch them.

P.S.

I don't think GNU/Linux needs fixing, because nothing is broken, IMO. For me everything works, if it doesn't work for you, post on LQ and I may be able to help. I refuse to believe people that tell me Linux is broken and needs fixing. I'm sorry but Window$ is broken and cannot be fixed.
I could not agree with you more
all of those linux sucks videos I've seen are computer illiterates expecting linux to be just like windoze
 
Old 09-10-2010, 03:52 PM   #7
dv502
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+1

Linux Rules!!!
 
Old 09-10-2010, 04:17 PM   #8
Alexvader
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...You know...

Quote:
I could not agree with you more
all of those linux sucks videos I've seen are computer illiterates expecting linux to be just like windoze
EVERYTHING SUCKS if one is not willing to make the slightest effort to learn, the tiniest sacrifice to aquire some new form of competence...

football sucks, Kyokushin Kai Karate Sucks, C++ sucks, Engineering sucks, Math sucks... etc..

but then, there is Diego Maradona, Oyama Masutatsu, Bjarne Stroustrup, Von Braun, Karl Friedrich Gauss...

enough to make a guy think... "am I a Man, or a rat...??!!"

if they did it, what stops me from doing it...?

This is the difference between ppl wh say something sucks, and the rest... IMHO
 
Old 09-10-2010, 05:21 PM   #9
onebuck
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
I don't care for watching videos about how much Linux sucks, I already know how much it sucks, and that's why I use it and will never use Window$ again. If you give me some about how much Window$ sucks, and they're funny, I might watch them.

P.S.

I don't think GNU/Linux needs fixing, because nothing is broken, IMO. For me everything works, if it doesn't work for you, post on LQ and I may be able to help. I refuse to believe people that tell me Linux is broken and needs fixing. I'm sorry but Window$ is broken and cannot be fixed.
You watch any of the video? He had some good points. The title catch phrase was a bit out of line and uncalled for. But the presenter did have some valid points. His presentation was not tearing GNU/Linux down but where he felt things could be improved. GNU/Linux doesn't need fixing but it does need improvements in many areas. Especially applications & drivers.

I do believe that the way things like for instance applications can be handled in a unified package sense instead of just one leading distribution and others must either find a way to adapt or create kludges for their distribution in order to have that upstream application. Open Source doesn't always have bleeding edge software but it has definitely improved. Open source still lags behind closed source with application types. You get what you pay for!

Other areas of concern are drivers. Sure it's better than 5 years ago but it still needs improvement in the availability of manufacture data so as to allow a sensible means to write good open drivers when that same manufacture doesn't want to release information. Reverse engineering takes a lot of time then add to that most people involved have day jobs since they & family like to eat. You have to be dedicated to continue in that arena. Look at the Slackware team as a good example of product development along with time spent for valued time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
I don't think GNU/Linux needs fixing, because nothing is broken, IMO. For me everything works, if it doesn't work for you, post on LQ and I may be able to help. I refuse to believe people that tell me Linux is broken and needs fixing. I'm sorry but Window$ is broken and cannot be fixed.
Looking from a distributions wide point instead of single distributions then indeed GNU/Linux does need to be fixed so things will somehow be standard between each. Heck, xorg is OK but it does need continued improvement.

Drivers are handled via the kernel. But devices between systems are not necessarily recognized or handled the same between distros. IMHO drivers are just one of the areas that need improvement.

I'm sorry but everything doesn't just work with GNU/Linux. We as LQ members can hopefully help but we can't work miracles if things are not supported. As for broken, I look at it needing improvements and as such has been occurring since day one. As for the M$, kludge that continues to be done as such. Still a tool but with limitations or one must be able to recognize what is needed to perform the desired task(s) when using M$ in any fashion.

'H', I don't want to come off as harsh but GNU/Linux does need improvement and will always be in a state of flux. Look at Slackware 0.9x and then look at Slackware 13.1. Man that's an improvement through the building of each version. It will continue to improve, be adjusted and fixed by participants into the future.

Again, I didn't like the titles but that's just a shock to get attention. I did watch both video an agree with some of the points but also found some points to be lacking. Food for thought!
 
Old 09-10-2010, 05:30 PM   #10
MTK358
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I watched only the first part, maybe I'll watch the second one later, and I agree with onebuck.

The video isn't made by a Linux hater and what he says actually quite true. He just chose a really bad title for it.

And I really could relate when they were talking about multiple monitors and 3D, because I use multipe monitors and 3D, and had to spend a few painful months to learn and figure it out. The main problem, though, is not so much the system itself but the SEVERE lack of newbie-oriented documentation about things like xrandr and the xorg.conf syntax.

Also it didn't help that xf86-video-ati still didn't support 3D and I had to mess with proprietary drivers. Now with xf86-video-ati, just install the package and it works like a dream if not for the extra setup needed for dual monitors!

Last edited by MTK358; 09-10-2010 at 05:32 PM.
 
Old 09-10-2010, 06:06 PM   #11
Kenny_Strawn
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Those videos were probably put there by M$ or Cr@ppŁe just to ridicule FOSS, and it will not stand. Those guys out there who expect Linux to be just like WinBloze have got their wish -- partly anyway, thanks to Ubuntu 10.10 Beta.
 
Old 09-10-2010, 06:26 PM   #12
Alexvader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny_Strawn View Post
Those videos were probably put there by M$ or Cr@ppŁe just to ridicule FOSS, and it will not stand. Those guys out there who expect Linux to be just like WinBloze have got their wish -- partly anyway, thanks to Ubuntu 10.10 Beta.
Should be called WiBuntu....

or OpenWindoze from Scratch...
 
Old 09-11-2010, 05:21 AM   #13
alan_ri
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OK, first things first.

I do not agree with the title of the videos, but I do understand why "the man" choose them and I can go with that when I know what his motivation was.

I must say that I always stay suprised when I see that people can comment on something, in this example - two videos, when they didn't even watched them. So to any wanna be smart fellows around here I suggest that you think very very good before you make your statment and before you do that you might wanna have a look at certain things.

The thing is, would I be starting a thread like this if I don't like Desktop Linux? Would I be a senior member here if I don't want to help Linux in general? Would I be using Linux for the last seven years if it's not working? That said, if anyone has something useful to say and is ready to participate in a good and healthy discussion, then you are welcome. And so to be said, I really don't like Microsoft and I'm being gentle when I'm using the term "really don't like".

So, "the man" said a lot of things about something that I and so as every Linux user who is using Linux for a decent period of time did expirience in everyday usage. There are problems and if you really love Linux you will face them and you will try to fix them, or you will help so that problems could be fixed. You will not only sit, whine and yell how some things don't work and how MS sucks. We all know that MS sucks.

The thing is what you as a user can do to make things better for Linux and Linux itself. I won't go into developers side of things because I'm afraid that I may lose some of the participants in this discussion, I will just say that developers need to eat!

I agree with almost everything what "the man" said in those two videos and for now I will point out just this; if you go to almost any web site of the Linux distributions active today, you'll see somewhere on that site a donation button or something similar. Why do you think that is so? Think about that!

I agree with onebuck and I respect you man... because you speak what is and you speak with background. Alexvader said it nicely too, about everything sucks thing.

I may be speaking a little too generally, forgive me for that onebuck and Alexvader but at the moment that's how I feel. All in all, to make a conclusion, for the time being that is, whoever wants to help Linux must do so as soon as they can and it must be done smart, efficient and with the heart. It won't go any other way.

That's it for now. I will go with some specific things and I will answer to onebuck's very good points and constructive commnets some time soon.
 
Old 09-11-2010, 09:38 AM   #14
onebuck
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Hi,

I can understand where you are coming from.

You will always have the 'my gun is bigger than yours and it's better' fight. Human nature. I look at GNU/Linux, M$ or whatever as tools. Some people feel that a Proto tool is the only way to work on something mechanical. While another mechanic will use Craftsman to do the same job or tasks. It all depends on the user for how well things will result from anything used to accomplish a task.

As for the donation or how we contribute to our cause for anything. That is very personal to some. It does depend on that persons willingness to participate by donation monetarily or their time to aid in some achievement. We do need to support within the GNU/Linux community good maintainers & programmers that provide the underlying tools that help. This is done in many ways:
Quote:
excerpt from My new mirror
I have a new mirror server.
I have configured a VPS (a virtually hosted server using QEMU) which was donated to me by a Slackware supporter who wishes to remain anonymous. The physical server is on a gigabit Internet connection, so I guess I can offer a speedy mirror service!
Alien_bob's 'My new mirror' was a great donation that will be used by him to continue the support within the Slackware community that has been great to date.

Bless that donor who has done a lot for the GNU/Linux Slackware community. This is not the first of such a donation, it's going on all the time but not publicly announced.

Support GNU/Linux in the way that fits you!
 
Old 09-11-2010, 12:05 PM   #15
H_TeXMeX_H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
I do believe that the way things like for instance applications can be handled in a unified package sense instead of just one leading distribution and others must either find a way to adapt or create kludges for their distribution in order to have that upstream application. Open Source doesn't always have bleeding edge software but it has definitely improved. Open source still lags behind closed source with application types. You get what you pay for!
Linux is about choice and maybe even ingenuity. If they came out with a unified package, I probably wouldn't use it, because it would probably be something like a Window$ installer. Many of the attempts at this look a lot like it.

I like FLOSS apps, I use only these (except nvidia drivers), and I get along just fine. The software will improve over time. So what is the problem ? If you're a developer, you can help, or if not, you can donate. I suppose you could also make video complaining about stuff and submit it to youtube, maybe even title it Linux sucks. Not sure if this would help development ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
Other areas of concern are drivers. Sure it's better than 5 years ago but it still needs improvement in the availability of manufacture data so as to allow a sensible means to write good open drivers when that same manufacture doesn't want to release information.
This problem is mostly with the manufacturers. Reverse engineering is often a mammoth task and one that wastes time when it could have been done much easier. M$ has a huge role to play here, I think they have a deal with the manufacturers, maybe even many deals, and they'll pull whatever strings they can to slow down Linux development.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
'H', I don't want to come off as harsh but GNU/Linux does need improvement and will always be in a state of flux. Look at Slackware 0.9x and then look at Slackware 13.1. Man that's an improvement through the building of each version. It will continue to improve, be adjusted and fixed by participants into the future.

Again, I didn't like the titles but that's just a shock to get attention. I did watch both video an agree with some of the points but also found some points to be lacking. Food for thought!
There's always room for improvement, so why would I argue against improvement. The problem is quite different, there's a difference between improvement (here meaning the continued development of software so that it reaches a state of greater stability and usefulness) and change/reconstruction (here meaning making Linux into Window$). There is a difference.

I will download the videos (reluctantly, and they are large) and watch them, but I personally would never say the words "Linux sucks" or attend any conference or speech based upon such notions. It's like getting off on the wrong foot ...

Last edited by H_TeXMeX_H; 09-11-2010 at 12:07 PM.
 
  


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