I've been using Debian for about a year now, and to be honest I don't want to upgrade to sid either - I would rather stick with sarge, even if it means I can't use X.org instead of XFree86.

Sarge is now the testing branch of Debian but it will become the next stable release in about one month. After Sarge has been released, a new testing branch, called Etch, will be established and Etch will get Xorg after it's been tested in the unstable branch (called Sid). So just stick with Debian's testing branch and in time you'll get Xorg with minimal trouble.

quote from UberNUT69:

"Your advice may have seemed more like a favour if it hadn't been pervaded by an air of superiority."

Au contraire, mon ami.
I explained the reason why he shouldn't install Sid due to his lack of experience. It was an honest, well-intended opinion shot from the hip.
Better the blunt truth, than syrupy lies from people who probably won't be around when the feces hit the fan.

Your advice of going ahead and installing Sid is nothing but irresponsible, and callous for such a noobie, he won't be able to follow instructions because he won't understand what we are talking about.

Now, if he stays in Sarge for 3-4 months, then he can make the transition effortlessly.

Like somebody else mentioned, this is not rocket science, but it might as well be. To a newbie, this is convoluted and full of new information that has to be digested, and implemented daily.

I think your perception of my arrogance, is your own sense of inferiority.

I have to agree with those saying to stick to the Sarge branch, regardless of any "airs" people may read into their post (whether correctly or not is beside the point). Right after the new stable release, Debian testing/unstable is going to go through some massive changes and chaos may well ensue for a short period of time. I personally am not willing to subject my pc to that until after the initial onslaught. I am not particularly noobish, yet I know enough to stay out of the water until those with more experience than I give the all clear signal. I've relabeled my repos to Sarge instead of testing so that I will end up stable until I'm ready to move back to testing after the new software settles in and I'm sure no weirdness that I can't handle won't crop up. The major thing I'm concerned about is the change in the xserver, but it's a pretty large change (though I'm very excited about getting it, I use my machine pretty heavily and want to minimize breakage and downtime).

Tons of info here:

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...der=descending

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...e+sid+to+sarge

I have to agree with Macondo. I have only been using Linux since December. I am very computer literate, but was a complete noob to Linux. I tried Debian from a recommendation of a friend of mine. I installed Debian Sarge, and instantly started learning. There were quite a few posts that people replied to that I did not understand what they meant because I had never heard the terms. Face it, you don't learn a lot of things running software that does not allow you to change things. While everyone in this forum has been extremely helpful, I had to ask what they meant a few times.
I have learned a lot from this forum and studying many guides and tutorials from Debian.org and the LDP. Still, I am sticking with Sarge on my main machine. I have considered installing Sid on another machine that doesn't matter if it gets messed up, but I do not expect a lot of help on Sid due to the nature of it's purpose; find it, report it, fix it.
As for me, I have appreciated the people in this forum being honest, it has kept me from making mistakes. I do believe that you have to play to learn, but for me, I still have a lot to learn before I start playing with Sid.
This is just my opinion, and the beauty of Linux is the ability to have opinions not directed from Redmond.

I'd also agree with macondo, and I think the recommendation to use Sarge is appropriate for someone who is new to Debian. My view is that the appropriate audience for Sid would be people who have significant experience with Debian, and are trying to help move the project forward by actively searching for and reporting bugs. Unless folks fit that profile, IMO, Sid just isn't the best choice. Obviously there's nothing to prevent someone from using Sid if he/she chooses, however, if they do encounter bugs and/or unexpected errors, etc, then most likely they'll end up with a very negative opinion of Debian and/or Linux itself (which if you ask me would be both unfair and entirely undeserved.)

To use an analogy, which would be the more suitable answer to the following question: "Hi, I'm interested in learning more about Linux, but I am very much a newbie. What do you recommend?"

A. "To really learn Linux inside and out, there's only one choice: Linux From Scratch (LFS)"
B. "Try using a Live CD such as Knoppix, which will let you run a full-fledged Linux system off the CD without writing anything to your hard drive."

No doubt an argument could be made in favor of either answer, but based on the original question, realistically the appropriate answer would be "B". Strictly just my 2 cents -- J.W.

I am also lucky (unstable for 6 months-no problem) )

Heh, Sid has been somewhat held back lately in the fear that radical changes in Sid might endanger Sarge's release. But after Sarge has been successfully released, new technology will flow to Sid (and a bit later to Etch). Among the big changes are gcc 4.0, python 2.4, Xorg 6.8.2, and apt 0.6. Some of this stuff WILL break things in Sid, and the effects will reverberate to Etch, too.

So, Sarge will be the safest option for the time being, but things must move on in Debian and Etch will be a good place to observe what's actually going on. Just remember to install apt-listbugs and read the bug warnings it shows before you upgrade packages.

I would agree, but I'd have said it a bit differently, something more along the lines of this:

If you're ready to use Sid, you wouldn't be asking that question, you'd already be using it.

This isn't meant to be rude, nor am I trying to be some 'holier than thou' ass.

The point is this:
Once you're at the point of using the unstable branch, you're already aware of, and have read, the majority of the documentation available to you, and would know enough about Debian and how to use apt well enough to upgrade your distro and wouldn't have to ask someone how to do it. If you haven't, then you're unprepared for using the unstable branch and _will not_ enjoy the experience. When you're ready, it'll seem as natural as walking instead of crawling.

Yes, some may get lucky and not have any major system snafus, but rest assured, it's inevitable. People that have started to use Sid recently have been fairly lucky: since Sarge has been slowing down, so has Sid so as to not force things into Sarge so that it can be frozen for distribution as the new Stable branch.

I know that I won't soon forget the first time ssh was borked and I was madly ripping cat5 from the backs of machines thinking systems had been compromised. That was the first of many borked systems that I've had to recover from by hand. I don't mind doing it, and anything I learn is put back into the community via bug reports and/or helping others.

If the statements above are confusing, then it's likely that you aren't ready for Sid.

A quote from the Tao of Linux

That was cool.

I borrow this thread a bit, I am wonder is it possible to "downgrade".
e.g I have sid now and want to go back to sarge, is a re-install the only way?

No just add the following to your /etc/apt/preferences:

Or if you want sarge change testing to stable

If you want to know more about it check the Apt howto about pinning.

Okej but I have to change my sources.list back to stable as well right? or is that automatic?