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Old 10-18-2009, 07:53 PM   #1
yonnieboy
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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: sw OR
Distribution: LMDE, PCLOS, Bodhi, Antix
Posts: 100

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IceApe, crashing, updates when?


I'm using Lenny, I've got years wrapped-up in IceApe/SeaMonkey. Thousands of emails, multiple accounts.
Don't even think about suggesting changing. I'm not about to, won't consider it until after it dies completely. It is by far the best internet suite ever made (IMHO), running on the best OS and suits our needs exactly. Maybe a gentle reminder to the folks at IceApe we users could use an update?

But I am having a small crashing issue that seems related with CUPS. Can't duplicate the problem. It seems random, only happens once in awhile. Am using an HP L7780 network printer. Problem could be the HP software.

Symptom is--->Click on print and bang, IceApe is gone, crashed. And sometimes, if the printer is having an error message, the IceApe will lose focus where the mouse button cannot select any buttons or areas on the displayed screen.

I have not noticed this issue with other applications, but then I'm not using other apps. as much as IceApe.

Would like some pointers on how to pin-point what is causing the problem. Cups, HP, IceApe, something else?
 
Old 10-19-2009, 03:03 AM   #2
rylan76
Senior Member
 
Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Potchefstroom, South Africa
Distribution: Fedora 17 - 3.3.4-5.fc17.x86_64
Posts: 1,475

Rep: Reputation: 87
Have you got any form of auto-updates turned on on that system?

This sounds a lot like the typical auto-update hell. Linux systems are exceedingly stable, if it starts intermittently doing something like this it is often due to an automatic update that screwed something up. Maybe your CUPS version upgraded without you knowing?

For my part I -never- use auto-updates or upgrades - it only causes trouble.
 
Old 10-19-2009, 08:02 AM   #3
the trooper
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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: England
Distribution: Debian Testing/Unstable Amd64
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Yonnieboy,i'm curious.Where did you get Iceape for Lenny from?.
From what i can see Iceape is only available for Sid/Unstable currently:

http://packages.debian.org/sid/iceape

@rylan76

Quote:
This sounds a lot like the typical auto-update hell. Linux systems are exceedingly stable, if it starts intermittently doing something like this it is often due to an automatic update that screwed something up
I'm sorry but i have to disagree.
This is Debian Stable we are talking about here.A distro that usually takes at least 2 years to release a new stable version,and for good reason.
It's as stable as an o/s can be.Regular use of aptitude update && aptitude safe-upgrade is nothing to fear.
I ran Stable myself before switching to Testing/Unstable,and in that time nothing 'broke' as the consequence of an update.
It's also worth mentioning that Stable does not 'upgrade' packages to the newest versions,you simply get security updates for existing packages.
Here's a quote from the Debian faq:

Quote:
2.2 Are there package upgrades in `stable'?

No new functionality is added to the stable release. Once a Debian version is released and tagged `stable' it will only get security updates. That is, only packages for which a security vulnerability has been found after the release will be upgraded. All the security updates are served through security.debian.org.

Security updates serve one purpose: to supply a fix for a security vulnerability. They are not a method for sneaking additional changes into the stable release without going through normal point release procedure. Consequently, fixes for packages with security issues will not upgrade the software. The Debian Security Team will backport the necessary fixes to the version of the software distributed in `stable' instead.
Hence the need for regular updates.

I see from your profile you use Fedora 11.Fedora is a good distro,i have used it myself and quite liked it.
But it has very different goals than Debian Stable.
Fedora is a 'bleeding edge' distro,using the latest greatest software that's why you'll get regular upgrades and probably more bugs.
It's more comparable with Sid/Unstable than with Stable.
If you run Fedora you have to accept this,but this is not universal to all Linux distros.

Quote:
For my part I -never- use auto-updates or upgrades - it only causes trouble.
So from the moment you finish doing an install you never update/upgrade anything?.
It's your machine and your choice,and aside from the security risk it seems to defeat the purpose of a bleeding edge distro.
I don't think this is a habit that should be encouraged,but that's just my opinion.
Please note i'm not trying to flame you here,i just feel strongly on the opinions you have expressed.
 
Old 10-20-2009, 02:59 AM   #4
rylan76
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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Potchefstroom, South Africa
Distribution: Fedora 17 - 3.3.4-5.fc17.x86_64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the trooper View Post
Yonnieboy,i'm curious.Where did you get Iceape for Lenny from?.
@rylan76

I'm sorry but i have to disagree.
This is Debian Stable we are talking about here.A distro that usually takes at least 2 years to release a new stable version,and for good reason.
It's as stable as an o/s can be.Regular use of aptitude update && aptitude safe-upgrade is nothing to fear.
I ran Stable myself before switching to Testing/Unstable,and in that time nothing 'broke' as the consequence of an update.
It's also worth mentioning that Stable does not 'upgrade' packages to the newest versions,you simply get security updates for existing packages.
Ok, I really know nothing about Debian, so I'll have to concede that one. As you mention below, my background is Fedora / Red Hat and there it often isn't like this...

Quote:
Here's a quote from the Debian faq:

Hence the need for regular updates.

I see from your profile you use Fedora 11.Fedora is a good distro,i have used it myself and quite liked it.
But it has very different goals than Debian Stable.
Fedora is a 'bleeding edge' distro,using the latest greatest software that's why you'll get regular upgrades and probably more bugs.
That's true!

Quote:
It's more comparable with Sid/Unstable than with Stable.
If you run Fedora you have to accept this,but this is not universal to all Linux distros.
Ok, I stand corrected on that.

Quote:
So from the moment you finish doing an install you never update/upgrade anything?.
Tee hee hee... nope! If I have any problems (and with Fedora I usually do) I fix them by manually compiling and installing packages, or fixing problems (like the Famous FC11 pulseaudio bug) by hand...

Part of the reason for this is bandwidth here is -incredibly- expensive, and internet service is world-class bad / weak. So I dread being in a situation of having to dial-up a repository (! - yes, dial up) and I can't cause the "net is down" once again. So I try to fix things myself, and setup an archive for each distro that lets me bring it from "cold" to hot on my hardware, all by myself, with no external connectivity.

Quote:
It's your machine and your choice,and aside from the security risk it seems to defeat the purpose of a bleeding edge distro.
Hmm, you have a good point, but I don't use the system as an internet-accessible webserver. It has nothing really vital on it, it is just for hobbying around with Linux and some raytracing with Povray.

Of course, as regards an internet webserver, you are absolutely right as regards security. But I'm just trying to have some fun with an alternative to Windows. As you say, different strokes for different folks.

Quote:
I don't think this is a habit that should be encouraged,but that's just my opinion.
Please note i'm not trying to flame you here,i just feel strongly on the opinions you have expressed.
Hey no problem! I welcome corrections or debate - you are 100% correct, and my way isn't necessarily THE WAY - it does however work for me and my situation and needs. That's what's nice about the whole Linux and open source thing - you can "roll your own" and smoke it anyway you want and nobody can put you in a box, like ALL Windows users are inside a locked iron box...

Thanks for sharing your opinions, you made some good points.

Kind regards,

Last edited by rylan76; 10-20-2009 at 03:02 AM.
 
Old 10-20-2009, 05:43 AM   #5
craigevil
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Registered: Apr 2005
Location: OZ
Distribution: Debian Sid
Posts: 4,732
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Iceape was in Etch but was removed from Lenny before it was released as stable. You might try using Seamonkey and just migrating your profile from Iceape to Seamonkey.
 
Old 10-22-2009, 07:50 AM   #6
yonnieboy
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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: sw OR
Distribution: LMDE, PCLOS, Bodhi, Antix
Posts: 100

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
I have updates set for checking daily. SeaMonkey isn't listed in the Lenny repo, at least it doesn't show-up when doing a search with the synaptic search tool. One of the issues I like about Lenny is applications seem to just work. Rarely ever have to "fix" something, or am I remembering my Fedora days? I guess this is bad? Puts me into a false sense of security and leaves me in the mode of not knowing what to do when things break?

Well the problem hasn't occurred for almost a week.
 
  


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