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Distribution: Slackware (personalized Window Maker), Mint (customized MATE)
Posts: 1,309
Rep:
Why OpenOffice.org doesn't like Microsoft fonts?
*** Problem solved by dugan ***
Both OpenOffice.org 2.4.0 and 3.0.0 can't display proper Microsoft fonts in my Slackware 12.1. Instead of Times New Roman they display Liberation Serif and instead of Arial they display Liberation Sans. Surprisingly they can display Courier New properly.
When I look at the Format | Character menu I see the valid names of the fonts (Times New Roman or Arial) but OpenOffice.org displays invalid fonts (Liberation Serif or Liberation Sans). The problem started with Slackware 12.1. In Slackware 11.0 everything worked well.
I don't use any replacement table in Tools | Options | OpenOffice.org | Fonts menu. In Tools | Options | OpenOffice.org Writer | Basic Fonts (Western) menu I use FreeSerif and FreeSans fonts.
I tried fc-cache -f command but the problem persists.
I can't figure out how to avoid that problem. Every assistance will be appreciated.
Distribution: Slackware (personalized Window Maker), Mint (customized MATE)
Posts: 1,309
Original Poster
Rep:
It was indeed there symbolic link to /etc/fonts/conf.avail/60-liberation.conf file. I removed it and now everything works properly. Thank you very much, dugan.
Reading 60-liberation.conf reminded me of Mickey$oft, though. "We've
decided what your system will display, and this is our choice for you."
Thanks for exposing it dugan ... I'll be reading the rest of the files
in that directory now. Maybe fonts in Slackware aren't so bad if you
fix those things.
We added Liberation fonts to Slackware (together with that fontconfig file) so that people without MS fonts on their system would be able to properly display web sites that hard-code MS font names like Arial and Times NR (usually because the web developer was using Windows tools).
Quote:
"We've decided what your system will display, and this is our choice for you."
Indeed - but you should take that in the exact reverse. We needed these Liberation fonts to work around the improper rendering of pages where a Microsoft tool tries to force it's will upon Slackware.
It would be appropriate for such hidden changes to be noted in CHANGES_AND_HINTS.TXT
It is just as hidden as all the other changes that occur in the development of a new Slackware release. The change does not affect a stock Slackware - in fact it makes it better. What you add by way of commercial fonts is not relevant enough to warrant an entry in the CHANGES_AND_HINTS file. You can expect support for what is in Slackware and needs to work together, but you can not expect that Slackware attends to every problem you encounter when installing "other" software on top.
When some foreign software causes a problem in Slackware, you can ask for the cause if you cannot find it yourself. That is why there is this forum and several IRC channels. You are twisting the issue when you state Slackware changes things because "we've decided what your system will display, and this is our choice for you.". Read what I wrote in my previous post about the reason for adding this fontconfig file.
Perhaps it wasn't included because of the sell of Slackware? The
EULA for those fonts says:
Quote:
SOFTWARE PRODUCT LICENSE
The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is protected by copyright laws and international
copyright treaties, as well as other intellectual property laws and treaties.
The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is licensed, not sold.
1. GRANT OF LICENSE. This EULA grants you the following rights:
* Installation and Use. You may install and use an unlimited number of
copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT.
* Reproduction and Distribution. You may reproduce and distribute an
unlimited number of copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT; provided that each
copy shall be a true and complete copy, including all copyright and
trademark notices, and shall be accompanied by a copy of this EULA.
Copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT may not be distributed for profit either
on a standalone basis or included as part of your own product.
So perhaps in the free download of Slackware they're perfectly legal,
but in the purchased CD/DVD Slackware box sets, they're not?
Not only would that have fixed this perceived problem with web pages,
but it never would have created the real problem 60-liberation.conf
created for OOo and other apps trying to use TrueType fonts from
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/.
These are not commercial fonts. They're freely available to anyone
who wants to use them. The problem created by 60-liberation.conf
extends past web pages ... this thread is in fact about OOo.
OTOH, we could just as easily fix the problem of some web pages
not rendering fonts a certain way in a different manner than making
a file where a font choice is forced upon the system.
Just my opinion ... worth all you paid for it.
I'm grateful for guys in LQ who find problems such as this, and post
the solution!
Perhaps it wasn't included because of the sell of Slackware? The
EULA for those fonts says: <license text snipped>
So perhaps in the free download of Slackware they're perfectly legal,
but in the purchased CD/DVD Slackware box sets, they're not?
The for-sale and the downloadable Slackware versions are no different. The font EULA explicitly forbids re-distribution as part of a commercial offering which Slackware is (notwithstanding the fact that Pat makes everything freely available for you to download).
Quote:
Not only would that have fixed this perceived problem with web pages,
but it never would have created the real problem 60-liberation.conf
created for OOo and other apps trying to use TrueType fonts from
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/.
Remember that there is no problem in displaying the fonts that come with Slackware. I find it more important to facilitate Slackware users who use this distribution out of the box than to make Slackware better-looking for people who use Microsoft fonts. The Liberation fonts are meant as an open source replacement for the Microsoft fonts.
Quote:
These are not commercial fonts. They're freely available to anyone
who wants to use them.
Not true. These fonts are commercial and copyrighted, and come with an EULA that explicitly grants the rights of use to anyone but limits the re-distribution. Furthermore, these fonts have since long been removed from the Microsoft web site but (unfortulate for Microsoft) the EULA did not prohibit the re-distribution of these fonts after they took them off-line.
Quote:
OTOH, we could just as easily fix the problem of some web pages
not rendering fonts a certain way in a different manner than making
a file where a font choice is forced upon the system.
If you look at the files in /etc/fonts you will see that all sorts of font choices and rendering decisions are being made, not just for Arial/Liberation but for all kinds of other fonts.
Bottom line, the Liberation fonts were created to give Linux users an alternative to having microsoft fonts forced upon them. In order to make a Linux system recognize the Liberation fonts as alternatives for those Microsoft fonts, a fontconfig file like "60-liberation.conf" is required. Too many web pages are still being made with Microsoft programs and the font "Arial" is forced upon the browser in far too many cases. The Linux browser that has no Arial (or other MS font) at it's disposal needs to ask the fontconfig program which other font is available to render the Arial font. The Liberation font is an exact metric replacement for these fonts, and made available just to give the end user (you) the same look of the web page as the web developer intended.
Instead of demanding that Slackware adds non-open source and not-redistributable Microsoft fonts, you could think of ways to support the creators of open source alternatives like the Liberation Fonts. The ongoing problem for Linux and Open Source projects is, that people will look for the easy way out (in this case, using MS fonts because they look prettier) instead of contributing back.
But you can contribute - either by refusing to use any MS fonts and asking web site owners to make their pages accessible to more than just MS Windows users, or by actively helping in the advancement of an Open Source project (the choice is yours).
I refuse to accept the idea that you need MS fonts in Slackware. If you need them, your option is to switch (back) to the use of MS Windows. If you still want to add them, the effort to make it work is yours (with the help of this and other forums if you run into problems). But do not try to point a finger and blame Slackware for adding this feature which is beneficial to users of Slackware.
Linux distributions (and the software on which they base their existence) only got where they are now, because there were people who thought it was important to have free and open alternatives to the software "everybody" was using, and made an effort to realize their goal. Often without pay (granted, nowadays many core Open Source Project contributors have funding from corporations).
Distribution: Slackware (personalized Window Maker), Mint (customized MATE)
Posts: 1,309
Original Poster
Rep:
Quote:
(in this case, using MS fonts because they look prettier)
I don't think Microsoft fonts look better than Liberation fonts. They look different but not better. In fact some Times New Roman, Arial, and Courier New diacritics look awful in comparison to Liberation Serif, Liberation Sans, and Liberation Mono characters.
In my opinion Liberation fonts and font substitution done by 60-liberation.conf file are great projects and ideas. Most computer users, most Linux users, and most Slackware users don't perceive the difference between Times New Roman and Liberation Serif or Arial and Liberation Sans. They simply want to see their documents displayed and printed properly in both Linux and Windows. Thanks to Liberation fonts and font substitution they have it without bothering where to find Microsoft fonts and how to put them in the system.
I used Slackware 12.1 for a few months and I noticed Microsoft fonts are displayed invalid in OpenOffice.org Writer but valid in KWord just a few days ago when I wanted compare FreeFonts and Microsoft fonts.
I need Microsoft fonts to display or print documents prepared by Windows users when I'd like to see these documents in exactly the same form as they were originally prepared. For everyday usage I take advantage of FreeFonts (FreeSerif, FreeSans, and FreeMono: http://www.gnu.org/software/freefont/). They're wonderful in shape and number of characters. I recommended them strongly in the another thread. I wrote there about GNU FreeFont set:
Quote:
It's good for everyday usage as well as for different special purposes. It contains all basic western characters including Latin Extended A and B, IPA characters (phonetic alphabet), Greek, Cyrillic, Hebrew, Arabic, and some exotic characters (for example: Devangari, Bengali, Tamil, Thai, and Ethiopic), a lot of Latin Extended Additionals, General punctuation, Currency Symbols, Letterlike Symbols (mostly used in mathematics), big set of Mathematical Operators, Miscellaneous Symbols, Dingbats, and much more.
Since you're Slackware Contributor take into consideration if it'll be good idea to include FreeFonts in the future versions of Slackware.
I refuse to accept the idea that you need MS fonts in Slackware. If you need them, your option is to switch (back) to the use of MS Windows.
For me, there is a need for MS fonts in Slackware. Rightly or wrongly, where I work any official publication must be prepared according to a corporate style guide which mandates the use of selected MS fonts. If I prepare a poster in Scribus, incorporating graphics handled within the GIMP and Chemtool on my home PC, then I am using software that would be beyond my means in my MS setup.
For many people in my situation, transparency in how to handle the fonts used in the majority of computers in the world would be of enormous benefit in everyday work. Being able to successfully replicate, if not better, the results obtained using Windows tools is the best argument that can be made for getting greater acceptance of Linux in the corporate environment.
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