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Old 09-09-2020, 09:57 AM   #1
ul7
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Things NOT to do when helping as a newbie


OK I am making this thread right here, right now. I do not want to be the new unofficial troll here (although that's probably too late). I need to know what is CORRECT, and what is INCORRECT for helping out people in the forums AS A NEWBIE. Gordie has definitely made a point on something I had NO clue about (I'm a Google whore, sorry I'm working on that. OK?). After hearing a more detailed understanding about how search engines can screw stuff up like bug testing, I get it now. Can you please help me to help you on what NOT to do. This is your stage. I need to know real concerns that plague progression on the ongoing development of Slackware. I didn't realize all of these other "hidden variables" in the learning journey. So set me straight here, and let's move on. Insults are welcome, so do it now while you still can because I won't be new forever. I'm a little salty on the matter, and want to make this right. Thank you, and I will work on being more conservative. I'm just really excited about Linux, and will contain that excitement to myself from now on.

EDIT: I think for the most part I know what I need to do. Gordie has made some really solid points, and I absolutely respect his opinions. I'm going to take it slow, cruise for now, if I run into anything wild I'll be in irrsi! Thanks again everyone!


EDIT#2: Thanks for the word wrap warning @RadicalDreamer

Last edited by ul7; 09-09-2020 at 12:11 PM.
 
Old 09-09-2020, 10:24 AM   #2
RadicalDreamer
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I'll tell you what I try to do. I try to help with what I know, including asking for clarification on what they are using so someone who does know the answer doesn't need to ask simple questions like are you using Current or what model is your video card. You are free to throw something out there to see if it sticks, including a Google search (providing a link to someone who has a similar issue), but continuing on without knowing what log or command to issue to troubleshoot is going to annoy people. It is okay to be wrong but it is not right to clutter threads. Also try not to let people anger you.

In the thread in question I wonder if the author has been keeping up with the updated Slackware Current scripts. I have no idea what his scripts look like. I've never attempted a Bridge so I got nothing to contribute there.
 
2 members found this post helpful.
Old 09-09-2020, 10:54 AM   #3
hitest
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Location: Prince Rupert, B.C., Canada
Distribution: Slackware, OpenBSD, Debian
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by ul7 View Post
I'm just really excited about Linux, and will contain that excitement to myself from now on.
I'm really happy that you're excited about Linux; you're a welcome member here at LQ! After 18 years of using Linux I still feel as excited as when I first started to run free open source software.
Feel free to help out with what you know. We are all unique; we have varied skill sets.
 
4 members found this post helpful.
Old 09-09-2020, 11:08 AM   #4
Slax-Dude
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Hi ul7,

As other pointed out, it is best to help (when replying to questions on a forum) when you have a fair amount of knowledge about what is being asked.

There are topics that are less technical and more subjective like "What you guys use as a browser?" or "What you guys think about dependency resolution?" and stuff like that.
In those topics it really doesn't matter if you are a newbie or not, as it is a matter of personal taste.

Being able to search for info is a useful skill and, sometimes, can help solve a complex problem in ways more experienced users never thought of... but that's "if all else fails" kind of situation

All in all, we are a fairly amiable community, welcoming new users and like to help them out.

In other words: we are full of greybeards *double checks in mirror, nods* and some don't appreciate a newbie "getting in the way" of helping a fellow slacker

It is OK to lurk, gaining experience, and trying to reply to some topic you are comfortable with or a problem you experienced recently.

*EDIT*
Also: please space out new lines and not post a huge block of text. It makes it easier on "old" eyes

Last edited by Slax-Dude; 09-09-2020 at 11:12 AM.
 
5 members found this post helpful.
Old 09-09-2020, 11:10 AM   #5
ul7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadicalDreamer View Post
Also try not to let people anger you.
Yeah, I know. I do get butt hurt too easy sometimes. I'm working on that. I'm just gonna read my little books and mind my own little business and cruise.

Last edited by ul7; 09-09-2020 at 11:42 AM.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 09-09-2020, 11:23 AM   #6
ul7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slax-Dude View Post
*EDIT*
Also: please space out new lines and not post a huge block of text. It makes it easier on "old" eyes
Lmao. Yes sir, I will keep that in mind.
 
Old 09-09-2020, 11:25 AM   #7
garpu
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Distribution: Slackware
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Yay! Welcome to Linux and Slackware!

I tend to ask the stupid questions first, not because I think the other person is stupid but because after working in IT, 90% of the time if something's going wrong it's an easy fix that might not be obvious to the person in the situation. Like with X the other day: I jumped to troubleshooting my video card and other esoteric solutions before actually checking that the cable to the monitor was plugged in. (It was loose...that can mimic a bad video card.) It was a thing that was obvious to my partner (that the cable needed to be reseated), but not to me, who was in the throes of panic about how to afford a new video card. Similarly, I've had people absolutely convinced it's hackers in their panic, when it really was just a matter of zapping the PRAM.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 09-09-2020, 11:45 AM   #8
upnort
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Registered: Oct 2014
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Computer savvy people long have had a history of being pompous egotistical snobbish jack asses who look down on others for not having the same knowledge level or not knowing how or where to RTFM. With online forums many people use aliases and that anonymity tends to encourage further jack ass behavior. That is unlikely to ever change.

Even when people are not trying to be a jack ass, all people have bad days and jack ass behavior often creeps into a forum post.

I'm no exception to having bad days and letting jack ass behavior creep into my posts. Nonetheless, when helping others online I try to follow some basic sanity checks.

* Step away when a post triggers any kind of emotional response. Do not reply until the emotional trigger subsides.

* Stick to facts. Minimize personal biases and opinions. This tends to be a challenge for many people because almost everybody wants to share opinions. Human nature 101.

* Refrain from posting a reply when not having a helpful answer.

* Many forums are English only. This creates a barrier for people who do not use English as a first or second language. Many such people have to resort to some kind of translator to help post. Don't presume such people are stupid just because they are forced to converse in a foreign language and their posts tend to sound like gibberish from an uneducated four-year old.

* Communicating is challenging. Online communicating is more challenging because there are no body language and facial expressions to help. Written conversations are easily misinterpreted. A healthy strategy with this challenge is to presume best intentions. Do not presume somebody is purposely being a jack ass.

* Communicating is challenging. People from different cultures have different customs and idioms. A healthy strategy with this challenge is to presume best intentions. Do not presume somebody is purposely being a jack ass

* Communicating is challenging. Be patient. Often several exchanges of questions and answers are needed before getting close to having sufficient information to actually start helping.

* Don't presume what the other person is seeking. Don't try to be l33t and outguess what the person seeks. Do not presume an XY problem. Just answer the fine question.

* Often the best strategy when replying to a jack ass is not to reply. Teaching pigs to sing just wastes time and irritates the pig.

* There is an old adage that arguing with a fool denigrates to a point where observers cannot tell who is who. If the urge is strong to reply to a jack ass, refer to the first item in this list. Take time to craft an intelligent reply rather than posting an emotional trigger.

* Don't be eager to press that Enter key on the keyboard. The world is not going anywhere. Slow down, take time to post something helpful.

* Use an external text editor to draft a post. Edit, edit, edit.

* Never ever let the jack asses discourage your enthusiasm or desire to help others. Jack asses will always be jack asses.
 
13 members found this post helpful.
Old 09-09-2020, 11:54 AM   #9
RadicalDreamer
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Registered: Jul 2016
Location: USA
Distribution: Slackware64-Current
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ul7 View Post
Yeah, I know. I do get butt hurt too easy sometimes. I'm working on that. I'm just gonna read my little books and mind my own little business and cruise.
The forum has word wrap so your original post is very choppy now XD.

What is your goals with Slackware? I'm using it as a desktop.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 09-09-2020, 11:56 AM   #10
Didier Spaier
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Registered: Nov 2008
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Take example from the posts written by bassmadrigal. I admire how he helps newbies
 
3 members found this post helpful.
Old 09-09-2020, 12:12 PM   #11
ul7
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Registered: Jan 2020
Posts: 109

Original Poster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slax-Dude View Post
Hi ul7,

As other pointed out, it is best to help (when replying to questions on a forum) when you have a fair amount of knowledge about what is being asked.

There are topics that are less technical and more subjective like "What you guys use as a browser?" or "What you guys think about dependency resolution?" and stuff like that.
In those topics it really doesn't matter if you are a newbie or not, as it is a matter of personal taste.

Being able to search for info is a useful skill and, sometimes, can help solve a complex problem in ways more experienced users never thought of... but that's "if all else fails" kind of situation

All in all, we are a fairly amiable community, welcoming new users and like to help them out.

In other words: we are full of greybeards *double checks in mirror, nods* and some don't appreciate a newbie "getting in the way" of helping a fellow slacker

It is OK to lurk, gaining experience, and trying to reply to some topic you are comfortable with or a problem you experienced recently.

*EDIT*
Also: please space out new lines and not post a huge block of text. It makes it easier on "old" eyes
How are you spacing out your text without the word wrap messing it up? Shift+Enter?
 
Old 09-09-2020, 12:14 PM   #12
ul7
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Registered: Jan 2020
Posts: 109

Original Poster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadicalDreamer View Post
The forum has word wrap so your original post is very choppy now XD.

What is your goals with Slackware? I'm using it as a desktop.
Yeah that was a fail...sorry. I want to initially learn programming using Slackware. Depending on how well I pick it up, I really want to create more things for Slackware. Security and robustness is my goal initially. Of course that may very well change depending on my viewpoints later as I begin to understand more about the OS and it's capabilities.

Last edited by ul7; 09-09-2020 at 12:20 PM.
 
Old 09-09-2020, 12:21 PM   #13
RadicalDreamer
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Registered: Jul 2016
Location: USA
Distribution: Slackware64-Current
Posts: 1,192

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ul7 View Post
Yeah that was a fail...sorry. I want to initially learn programming using Slackware. Depending on how well I pick it up, I really want to create more things for Slackware. Security and robustness is my goal initially. Of course that may very well change depending on my viewpoints later as I begin to understand more about the OS and it's capabilities.
Have you tried running rkhunter and lynis? They are both available at Slackbuilds.

Which language? What do you want to program?

Slax-Dude separated his sentences instead of lines.

Last edited by RadicalDreamer; 09-09-2020 at 12:22 PM.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 09-09-2020, 12:38 PM   #14
ul7
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Registered: Jan 2020
Posts: 109

Original Poster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadicalDreamer View Post
Have you tried running rkhunter and lynis? They are both available at Slackbuilds.

Which language? What do you want to program?

Slax-Dude separated his sentences instead of lines.
Gotcha. Yeah man, I think I may do C/Python as a first language. Python is more than likely going to be easier.

Before any of that however, I feel the need to really get comfortable using bash command line. Just using bash in general.

I think this will be foundational knowledge moving forward.
 
Old 09-09-2020, 12:42 PM   #15
ul7
Member
 
Registered: Jan 2020
Posts: 109

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by upnort View Post
Computer savvy people long have had a history of being pompous egotistical snobbish jack asses who look down on others for not having the same knowledge level or not knowing how or where to RTFM. With online forums many people use aliases and that anonymity tends to encourage further jack ass behavior. That is unlikely to ever change.

Even when people are not trying to be a jack ass, all people have bad days and jack ass behavior often creeps into a forum post.

I'm no exception to having bad days and letting jack ass behavior creep into my posts. Nonetheless, when helping others online I try to follow some basic sanity checks.

* Step away when a post triggers any kind of emotional response. Do not reply until the emotional trigger subsides.

* Stick to facts. Minimize personal biases and opinions. This tends to be a challenge for many people because almost everybody wants to share opinions. Human nature 101.

* Refrain from posting a reply when not having a helpful answer.

* Many forums are English only. This creates a barrier for people who do not use English as a first or second language. Many such people have to resort to some kind of translator to help post. Don't presume such people are stupid just because they are forced to converse in a foreign language and their posts tend to sound like gibberish from an uneducated four-year old.

* Communicating is challenging. Online communicating is more challenging because there are no body language and facial expressions to help. Written conversations are easily misinterpreted. A healthy strategy with this challenge is to presume best intentions. Do not presume somebody is purposely being a jack ass.

* Communicating is challenging. People from different cultures have different customs and idioms. A healthy strategy with this challenge is to presume best intentions. Do not presume somebody is purposely being a jack ass

* Communicating is challenging. Be patient. Often several exchanges of questions and answers are needed before getting close to having sufficient information to actually start helping.

* Don't presume what the other person is seeking. Don't try to be l33t and outguess what the person seeks. Do not presume an XY problem. Just answer the fine question.

* Often the best strategy when replying to a jack ass is not to reply. Teaching pigs to sing just wastes time and irritates the pig.

* There is an old adage that arguing with a fool denigrates to a point where observers cannot tell who is who. If the urge is strong to reply to a jack ass, refer to the first item in this list. Take time to craft an intelligent reply rather than posting an emotional trigger.

* Don't be eager to press that Enter key on the keyboard. The world is not going anywhere. Slow down, take time to post something helpful.

* Use an external text editor to draft a post. Edit, edit, edit.

* Never ever let the jack asses discourage your enthusiasm or desire to help others. Jack asses will always be jack asses.
Dude, can I make this a poster? This is exactly what I needed! Thanks, I'm sure we've all been here before.

Hopefully less and less as time moves forward lol.....

Last edited by ul7; 09-09-2020 at 12:43 PM.
 
  


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