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I think as long as viable alternatives to systemd are actively developed and continue to offer functionality that is competitive that can be made useful by any Linux distribution, and not just Slackware, any chance, level, and purpose of an "exodus", will end up as an improbability to some percentage. The beauty of Free Open Source Software is, when there is a need, and there is a will, there can always be multiple paths to follow to a solution. However, that being said, knowing your alternatives to Linux, or even just Slackware, is never discouraged.
bassmadrigal wrote the post I would have written if I was fluent in English.
So I'll just leave you in your Plan9 realm:
Code:
CHARLES FORSYTH:
>> A single P9 box is brain dead, it is unable to
>> demonstrate -any- of its advantages over a traditional OS.
Happy planning
Cheers
there is a difference in an application and an OS
ofc you wouldn't use pipes to patch together a program that plays mp3's
thats just stupid
but you would put the things needed to read that mp3, things needed to decode that mp3, things needed to give user feedback and so on in different functions
and you would refactor them into independent functions that you can put into independent libraries for other programs you might make
you would make things as simple as you can, but not simpler then that
an OS is a different thing, in some way
plan9 has advantages over linux, even on single computers
and many plan9 design decisions were copied to linux, making it a better OS
so have some fkin respect and do some research
as for systemd
i said i think it's a bad design, but you guys are talking about it's user interface
note that i didn't just wake up one day and say "il just hate that programs 'cuz reasons"
i actually did plenty of research on how systemd works as a system (that is not documented and presented on some blog)
i know many systemd proponents will scream, but systemd does not actually bring nothing new to linux
the biggest thing its devs talk about is "unification",
and that is funny because they go against standards on purpose, for no real reason
(note how i used the word "proponents", not "fanboys" or the like of "haters")
anyway, i'm done for now
you can use anything you like, i won't tell you what to do
just don't be like Lennart, insulting peoples intelligence and presenting things as something they are not
cheers
Last edited by genss; 11-04-2014 at 03:02 AM.
Reason: swap 2 letters
The topic is "The mass exodus if Slackware uses Systemd". So technical every post that doesn't specifically talk about "the mass exodus" is off-topic.
However I think the general consensus is that the topic is systemd and issues that could affect Slackware.
Since your are publicly proclaiming your expertise, why don't you enlighten us. Are you saying that there is an engineering process that has investigated possible patent conflicts with systemd? Because if not and systemd is the subject of a lawsuit, that would surely affect Slackware.
Please be fair on this, you've edited your posts rather drastic (removing some claims and personal insults).
No, I'm not a lawyer.
However, guess who's happily using a Red Hat clone (OEL7) WITHOUT offering any protection against such silliness as well.
PS: ... and yes, I'm very aware of the existing patent on SMF (property of Oracle after buying SUN, including everything Solaris).
It's really not the same as Btrfs, the latter is almost completely an Oracle product unlike systemd (meaning patents shouldn't even be your first concern here!).
Anyway, I still think it's fundamentally wrong to use legal stuff in non-legal discussions without having a real lawyer.
KDE 4.x is demonstrably worse than KDE 3.x was 10 years ago. After 6 years of development, there are still some fundamental features of KDE 3.x which have not been implemented/replicated in KDE 4.
This is one of the reasons, why I consider the Linux desktop a legacy platform. There is a reason, why third party developers like Adobe abandoned it completely. So "Let's screw up everything else including the kernel for desktop GHIJKL" is something I want to avoid.
Also the fiddling around to get stuff working has become worse over time, because it's not anymore: "Here is the Tarball, this is how you get it work.", but instead "Get our new exciting Linux distro with XYZ already included!" or even "Ask your Linux distributor to make it work for you. Or click here to download our installer for Windows/OSX."
It is all about the end user. A desktop should just work and it applies not only to users without deep knowledge of computer; if you see some interviews with Torvalds, he says always, that he wants that the system just works, that the hardware is automatically recognized, that the configuration is simple. And he is a Unix guy.
kde... kde was never a good desktop, neither kde3 nor kde4 (just to start a new war ) Word processing 6 years ago.. you need to prepare something for the school and there is no program that can open a .doc document from your friend without mess up the content. My parents have my old computer with an elder linux and hp printer for that I could find only drivers with costs; I think I had some problems with the sound card aswell. Fantastic driver support, fantastic working environment (to avoid the question "why have you used it?", I was starting to learn web development in that time).
So my take away from this thread is that Slackware users are pragmatists not ideologues which is not surprising since Linux users tend to be pragmatists.
So my take away from this thread is that Slackware users are pragmatists not ideologues which is not surprising since Linux users tend to be pragmatists.
I'm a philosophy student. Why pragmatist? I'm more ideologue/idealist in my every day life...
I'm a philosophy student. Why pragmatist? I'm more ideologue/idealist in my every day life...
I was a philosophy major too..
They're pragmatists because they'll use what works rather that be locked into what things ought to be. Unless your ReaperX7 or RMS you actually have to get things done and that sometimes means you can't always have purity or perceived purity.
Getting things done, and doing things right are two vastly different subjects. I prefer to do things right rather than just get them done. Just getting things done can have things go any number of directions, it can go right, wrong, or end up a sloppy mess somewhere spread all over in the vast space in between right and wrong.
This isn't just about seeing a glass half full or half empty. It's about someone who didn't fill the glass properly or took a drink without asking first. One is just laziness, the other is just sickening. It also could be they got the drink I ordered wrong...
They're pragmatists because they'll use what works rather that be locked into what things ought to be. Unless your ReaperX7 or RMS you actually have to get things done and that sometimes means you can't always have purity or perceived purity.
so you are saying we should all accept the reality that systemd is the best thing ever and the solution to all problems ?
even though in reality it is not ?
also don't put people in groups and then judge them by what group they are in
there are all kinds of people using slackware, and, for example, i don't agree with some of them on some things
in short, the truth is not what it seems when talking about systemd
i'd advise employing some critical though when reading Lennarts blog, since you are a philosopher
edit:
Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which are there.
--Richard P. Feynman
so you are saying we should all accept the reality that systemd is the best thing ever and the solution to all problems ?
even though in reality it is not ?
also don't put people in groups and then judge them by what group they are in
there are all kinds of people using slackware, and, for example, i don't agree with some of them on some things
in short, the truth is not what it seems when talking about systemd
i'd advise employing some critical though when reading Lennarts blog, since you are a philosopher
edit:
Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which are there.
--Richard P. Feynman
I don't think he said with that, what you should do, it is your choice. He just said, he sees a tendency of linux users to be more pragmatic. And on this point I agree with what ReaperX7 has written above.
And there is no "reality", there is just your opinion and opinions of others.
And there is no "reality", there is just your opinion and opinions of others.
i'm sorry but computer science is a science
science is not about opinions, but about reality
i gave you a couple technical reasons why systemd is a bad system and i can give you more facts on its implemetation details
and i can give you that because i did a lot of low level stuff, since it's my hobby
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) mentioned very many good points.
) Word processing 6 years ago.. you need to prepare something for the school and there is no program that can open a .doc document from your friend without mess up the content. My parents have my old computer with an elder linux and hp printer for that I could find only drivers with costs; I think I had some problems with the sound card aswell. Fantastic driver support, fantastic working environment (to avoid the question "why have you used it?", I was starting to learn web development in that time).
