Yeah, because runningis that much harder than editing a text file.

please, oh please stop with that bullshit reasoning
"oh but nobody will maintain it and everybody that doesn't have systemd will die horribly in a fire from a train hitting them while falling in Montserrat's Soufrière Hills volcano infested by flame resistant sharks with laser blades on their teeth"

things systemd provides are not much different then what we have now
and they won't get much different
and it's all over dbus, meaning it is simple (albeit ugly) to do
also kdbus is, unlike anything systemd related, well documented, so making a... whatever you call it won't be as hard as making a console-kit replacement
(also ck sucks)


in short:
systemd itself does not actually do much
it leeches on every good mechanism made for linux (good, so not including udev) and claims only it can do it

1 members found this post helpful.

You are right, we all should all never rely on libraries and functions provided by other projects, we all should do all development inhouse. Let's start with a libc, so that people on forums don't complain about us being lazy for using Glibc. When we are at it, every and all WM and DE should have its own GUI toolkit, it is just too lazy to rely on GTK or Qt.

Are you serious?

This link was already provided in post #1262.

Do we really need to rehash was has already been discussed ad nauseam?

Can't we (at least one of our most senior users like you) just stop answering to every argument coming from the other side, even if we think it is biased and debatable?

Soon be hitting the 100 page target!!! Remember, the poster who posts the post that achieves that wins a life-size LP blowup doll! Woweeeeeeee!!!!!!

So you mean that it is better we leave biased statements or even outright wrong "information" unchallenged? Just to stop the debate?

Yes, that's exactly what I mean, as issuing arguments and counter arguments in a discussion endlessly just to have the last word is childish in my opinion, no matter the validity of these arguments and counter arguments.

The most childish is not the one who gives up.

1 members found this post helpful.

Tobi you don't even use Slackware, so why do you even bother? Go play with your Gentoo, or whatever else systemdish that fits the task. And nice try on the library spin flop, but try again and make sense next time.

A DE and init are two different and separate systems and should use things designed for each appropriately, not do shortcuts and halfassed work by trying to dump a load onto another separate system to do your work for you. Your logic of thinking is like trying to add a UI to glibc. Nice try, but try again with an argument that actually makes a piles worth of sense.

just because someone said that the things the kde dev wrote are nonsense and we do not need this stuff because it already exists?
I am looking forward to see the contributions to make KDE fully functional on Slackware, that's great that I do not need to worry.


and how do you think will be reach the 1000?

but there is theory and there is practice.
possible we will find enough people that care and keep future KDE usable without systemd.

As long as the doll is blonde, because, well, I like blondes. This thread may well achieve 100 pages. Egad.

What projects would these be? Gnome? Unity? KDE? "Projects" I want nothing to do with? Ever?

Some time ago I gave KDE a fair try. It lasted a week. I gave up when I closed Kmail only to find the system insisted I still needed to have my 10,000 emails synced with some database locally. You can imagine my delight to find KDE insisted on syncing all my email despite my closing the client. This on a metered 3G connection. I use IMAP for a reason, and that reason is that I don't want some brain-dead developer insisting s/he knows better than I do how to collect my email on a slow, metered 3G connection.

Nor do I want to see my console spammed with hundreds of lines of KDE, akonadi, nepomuk, strigi, SQL, polkit and consolekit junk, informing me how this didn't work, that didn't work, and the other didn't work.

So no KDE for me thanks. Ever. They've had their chance to impress me ever since they released the first KDE around the time Windows 95 was released. They failed.

And none of the other related "projects" either.

Really? Would you mind being more specific about these daemons I use which will meekly surrender to the systemd dictatorship? Hiawatha? I don't think so. Postfix? I don't think so. Dovecot? I don't think so. PostgreSQL? I don't think so.

KDE again. You're assuming all of us want that bloated Windows wannabe. Or any of the other brain-dead Linux desktop environments (with the honourable exception of Xfce). I use Fvwm. If the day comes Fvwm requires systemd through the Wayland backdoor then I'll very happily migrate 100% back to Windows and keep {Net,Open,Free,Dragonfly}BSD around for the servers I need. With each passing day Linux is providing less and less that I need or want or admire. This is not the fault of Slackware. It is very much the fault of those bullies who are pushing their agenda on the rest of us just because they think they know best what we need. You are mistaken if you think I'm going to be pushed around by these kids, most of whom weren't even around when 90% of the groundwork for Linux was done back in the 70s and 80s. And it shows. They have no perspective. No solid idea of what is required. And no roadmap. Just a bunch of disconnected (literally and figuratively) people and corporate entities using Linux as a dumping ground for their completely disconnected ideas. If the enemies of free and open-source devised a plot to destroy it they couldn't have come up with a better one than what we have now. It would be nice to see Linus wrest control back but I get the feeling he and Greg Kroah-Hartmann and the rest have sold out to the highest bidders.

Beware those bearing gifts, as they say.

4 members found this post helpful.

So I take it you have not been running FreeBSD for that long? You probably need to do a little more research on the Jordan Hubbard "next 10 years" FUD which has been circulating for a while.

Somehow I'm not too worried about inetd or cron or most of the other traditional tools becoming unmaintained. They barely ever need to be touched now anyway, because they are simple, complete, and debugged. How many years will it be before systemd can claim the same?

Bad example -- kdbus can't be considered a "Linux change" until it's actually part of Linux, and last I checked it still hadn't been accepted. Even if it does become accepted, so what? It's just a messaging framework, similar to a dozen others. While it has its differences (like being mediated from the kernel), that's no big shakes.

First off, I'm glad it works for him. Everyone should have the freedom to choose the tools they think are best-suited to their circumstance.

On the other hand, I notice he doesn't even mention alternatives to systemd-logind (like XFCE's ConsoleKit2), and scrolling through the other features he mentions, I don't see a single one which can't be implemented in other ways (some of them quite trivial) which have nothing to do with systemd.

But that's okay. There are many ways to do these things, and systemd has implemented their own. If he wants to use systemd's particular implementation, fine. Like I said, everyone should have the freedom to choose their tools.

When we get down to "User Units" in that article, though, the author becomes rather disingenuous. He says "init is handled by a rather cumbersome shell script" and links to an init script which is lengthly, but fairly simple and straightforward, and not cumbersome at all. He also implies that it is not possible to start processes in parallel from an init script, which is untrue.

Since everything developers need are already there, it seems they just need to be tutored on how to use them. But I suppose re-implementations are more exciting and attention-grabbing than reading "man sudo", "man bash", et al.

1 members found this post helpful.

now, because systemd is pretty new.
sooner or later also XFCE has to talk with systemd if it wants to run on RedHad/CentOs/Fedora, Suse/Opensuse, Ubuntu, possible even Debian, Mandriva Magaira, Arch.

if those run on systemd, and XFCE has limited man power, we will see how it develops and if it will not also go the KDE Gnome way.
who knows



fine that you have everything you need, but others may have different needs?