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Old 01-02-2018, 05:44 AM   #61
Mark Pettit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rworkman View Post
On one hand, I think it's a useful addition - it's IMHO the best office suite available.

On the other hand, having it outside the main tree makes it easier to keep it updated - quite frankly, I can almost promise that you won't see routine upgrades, even within a minor -stable series, if it goes into the main Slackware tree.
The quote loses the original text - but in this case, the suggestion was "LibreOffice"
Robby - I absolutely see your point. But, it could be just as easy to say that for virtually every single other package on the iso too. Firefox, Thunderbird, etc. Point is that if one wants to take the full iso and put it on Granny's PC, Granny will really want to a) browse the web, b) send some email, and c) type up some old-fashioned letters. The standard Slackware install satisfies a) and b), but the packages that ship to satisfy c) are really a bit "weak" or "wanting". Really, LO is the only game in town.
I know some people might say that Slackware isn't suited to Granny - but I'm sick and tired of installing Ubuntu and then having to deal with its chronic update cycle which seems to break things more often than I'd care. Slackware is, to my mind, the perfect distro for Granny - install it and forget it - Granny will be happy for years to come.
 
Old 01-02-2018, 05:57 AM   #62
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atelszewski View Post
Hi,



That's mine opinion too.
The same goes for SMplayer (which I maintain at SBo) and Geany, which were requested here.

--
Best regards,
Andrzej Telszewski
A TWO year old SMPlayer is still well functional, because they does not change too much the main features. And probably it will be in pair with the shipped MPlayer. Trust there a lifelong SMPlayer user: me.

BUT, of course, why we should make the Slackware users life easy?

Last edited by Darth Vader; 01-02-2018 at 06:08 AM.
 
Old 01-02-2018, 06:12 AM   #63
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Pettit View Post
The quote loses the original text - but in this case, the suggestion was "LibreOffice"
Robby - I absolutely see your point. But, it could be just as easy to say that for virtually every single other package on the iso too. Firefox, Thunderbird, etc. Point is that if one wants to take the full iso and put it on Granny's PC, Granny will really want to a) browse the web, b) send some email, and c) type up some old-fashioned letters. The standard Slackware install satisfies a) and b), but the packages that ship to satisfy c) are really a bit "weak" or "wanting". Really, LO is the only game in town.
I know some people might say that Slackware isn't suited to Granny - but I'm sick and tired of installing Ubuntu and then having to deal with its chronic update cycle which seems to break things more often than I'd care. Slackware is, to my mind, the perfect distro for Granny - install it and forget it - Granny will be happy for years to come.
According with the honorable Scholars hanging here, the typical Granny buy a 8GHz 32 cores Ryzen, assorted with 64 GB DDR4 memory and at least a Tesla unit, and she love to build the Qt5 and LibreOffice from sources.
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Last edited by Darth Vader; 01-02-2018 at 10:03 AM.
 
Old 01-02-2018, 06:18 AM   #64
atelszewski
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
A TWO year old SMPlayer is still well functional, because they does not change too much the main features. And probably it will be in pair with the shipped MPlayer. Trust there a lifelong SMPlayer user: me.

BUT, of course, why we should make the Slackware users life easy?
But in the 2 years, they have fixed multiple bugs.
The bugs might not apply to your use case, but might to others.

And I generally keep SMplayer reasonably updated at SBo.
You can't expect the same from Pat in general, because he might not be using the software in question, and until somebody comes to LQ and asks for an update, Pat might not notice the need.

I just don't see a need for that.
Of course, your opinion might be different.

--
Best regards,
Andrzej Telszewski
 
Old 01-02-2018, 06:25 AM   #65
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atelszewski View Post
Hi,



But in the 2 years, they have fixed multiple bugs.
The bugs might not apply to your use case, but might to others.

And I generally keep SMplayer reasonably updated at SBo.
You can't expect the same from Pat in general, because he might not be using the software in question, and until somebody comes to LQ and asks for an update, Pat might not notice the need.

I just don't see a need for that.
Of course, your opinion might be different.

--
Best regards,
Andrzej Telszewski
Again, a TWO years old SMPlayer, probably in pair with the very MPlayer shipped, is much better than nothing.

And I was never bitten by a SMPlayer bug, while watching the usual files.

Also, not every Granny is a hacker, you know...

PS. WHY YOUR SMPLAYER ask me for updating, no longer than today?

Last edited by Darth Vader; 01-02-2018 at 06:34 AM.
 
Old 01-02-2018, 07:22 AM   #66
atelszewski
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
PS. WHY YOUR SMPLAYER ask me for updating, no longer than today?
Mine is only SlackBuild :->

If
Quote:
Originally Posted by atelszewski
And I generally keep SMplayer reasonably updated at SBo.
does not speak to you, then please try:
"Preferences -> Updates -> Check for updates (untick)" and you'll be all set.

--
Best regards,
Andrzej Telszewski
 
Old 01-02-2018, 10:31 AM   #67
bassmadrigal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
I hope that the Slackware Team is well aware that those words apply well also to a particular Desktop Environment with a life cycle of roughly a month and so big that represents roughly half of our typical Slackware distribution.
Should Slackware not include a kernel since they put out a new one every month or two (-current's gone through 36 kernels so far)? Mesa has been upgraded 28 times during this development cycle... should we leave that out too so users can update it when new releases are out? Firefox was upgraded 23 times and Thunderbird was upgraded 18 times. Should these be left out as well to ensure that users can keep on top of them? For comparison's sake, there's been 17 months since 14.2 was released, so all of these have an average of at least an upgrade a month.

This is no different than ANY other piece of software on Slackware. Some have predictable release schedules, while others follow a "release it when it's ready". Pat will do as he always does and find the balance between recent and stable. I have no doubt this will occur with KDE5 if it is included. He will find a release that works well, and if there are serious bugs, he'll put out patches... just like he has done for previous KDEs.

And KDE 5.12 is supposed to be an LTS release with "at least 2 years of support" (which works out since it coincides with an LTS release of QT 5.9).

For any curious, the command I used to find the number of times a program changed is:

Code:
fgrep -e Added. -e Upgraded. -e Removed. /location/to/slackware64-current/Changelog.txt | egrep -v kernels | rev | cut -d "-" -f4- | rev | sort | uniq -c | sort
 
Old 01-02-2018, 10:52 AM   #68
Darth Vader
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Dear Frenemy, in your wonderful speech you have fantasies like a hypothetically KDE 5.12 ...

The harsh reality is that we have expect in the near future the Plasma 5.12 (and this will be LTS), the Frameworks 5.42 or something (and this will NOT be LTS) and probably the Applications 18.1.0 (also this will NOT be LTS)

There is no such thing like KDE 5.12, just like Santa Claus does not exists.

Instead, we have tons of stand-alone applications and frameworks, with a life cycle of one freaking month.

Should Patrick Volkerding track down those hundreds of projects, and spend his half of time going to figure out how they work together, in defavor of other distribution components?

In my opinion, this should not happen.

Instead, the Plasma should go in its own repository, even it will be maintained also by our BDFL, out of enthusiasm.

WHY? Because a separate repository for Plasma 5 will permit a separate release cycle, maybe similar with a forever -current.

BUT, every bit of KDE, Plasma or whatever better to go away from the main tree. Heck, the Plasma 5 is big enough to be shipped in its own DVD!

I do this discourse because I believe that Slackware is a general purpose operating system and definitively NOT a desktop one.

And this very idea imply that I should have the ability to install Slackware without any bit of a particular DE.

Last edited by Darth Vader; 01-02-2018 at 11:06 AM.
 
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Old 01-02-2018, 11:06 AM   #69
atelszewski
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
And this very idea imply that I should have the ability to install Slackware without any bit of a particular DE.
You're going to receive a well known answer (TM) to this claim, if any.

--
Best regards,
Andrzej Telszewski
 
Old 01-02-2018, 11:08 AM   #70
bassmadrigal
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Do you realize that Pat has handled previous KDEs without an issue? He will likely find a version that is stable in Slackware and then just push out patches as needed. Just because KDE devs have their own release schedule doesn't mean that Pat has to put out every single release they have.

And I know "KDE5" doesn't exist, but it is much easier for me to call it that.
 
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Old 01-02-2018, 11:10 AM   #71
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atelszewski View Post
Hi,


You're going to receive a well known answer (TM) to this claim, if any.

--
Best regards,
Andrzej Telszewski
I know about the Holly Full Install, and I will happy to follow it, when I need that.

The issue is that that Holly Full Install should not contains any bit of KDE or Plasma.

It better should go in its own repository, from where the fans of it (including me) can install it all the way.

Last edited by Darth Vader; 01-02-2018 at 11:13 AM.
 
Old 01-02-2018, 11:22 AM   #72
bassmadrigal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
It better should go in its own repository, from where the fans of it (including me) can install it all the way.
Or we could include a fully functional KDE (with subsequent patches as Pat sees fit) and then others, who want the latest and greatest, can set up slackpkg+ (or their preferred method) to track Eric's ktown.

...which is basically the way the last few releases went (possibly longer, but I wasn't paying enough attention back then).
 
Old 01-02-2018, 11:25 AM   #73
shastah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
I know about the Holly Full Install, and I will happy to follow it, when I need that.

The issue is that that Holly Full Install should not contains any bit of KDE or Plasma.
Let me respond to you with your own words:

"-1000000 for that. To intentionally broke even those small bits of compatibility with (..)"
 
Old 01-02-2018, 11:30 AM   #74
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmadrigal View Post
Or we could include a fully functional KDE (with subsequent patches as Pat sees fit) and then others, who want the latest and greatest, can set up slackpkg+ (or their preferred method) to track Eric's ktown.

...which is basically the way the last few releases went (possibly longer, but I wasn't paying enough attention back then).
About what KDE you talk with serenity, when the last one of its kind is KDE4, and sooner or later it will not compile anymore?

In other hand, I do not see our BDFL pushing in patches half of distribution packages, BTW...

Last edited by Darth Vader; 01-02-2018 at 11:42 AM.
 
Old 01-02-2018, 11:32 AM   #75
Darth Vader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shastah View Post
Let me respond to you with your own words:

"-1000000 for that. To intentionally broke even those small bits of compatibility with (..)"
A separate official repository for Plasma 5, which gives a rolling release (monthly?) experience, independently of the main releases, probably will make even more happy the Windows fans.

Last edited by Darth Vader; 01-02-2018 at 11:39 AM.
 
  


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