Removing KDE *may* cause an immediate loss of new Linux users. I myself don't see a difference between pre-packed and GSB, though.

Slackware could bring back the kde 'trinity' project and show em' who's boss!

IMHO, a kde-slackbuild project would suffice if need be. I'm a Slacker for the long haul.

I personally love/use the XFCE project. I just wish they had network file sharing via nfs/samba/fish built into thunar. That's the only reason I can't drop KDE off the pc for the time being for those "special people" here. I've tried the smbfuse, but that is very unreliable and I've had data corruption using it.

No offense, but that would make slackware "that kde trinity distro" as opposed to people noting it for its other strengths. I think that would be sad day to have slackware morph into a niche desktop environment distribution.

Xfce 4.8 has this. I've used the ssh option in Thunar, works quite nicely. I've also browsed for samba shares to just see if it worked, and it did

I'm glad some other Distro packaging teams also spoke up. It's nice to know they are not all mindless sheep wanting to be led to the slaughter.
Perhaps KDE can keep their source splits for ease of development, and either provide fat tar balls or a script to easily sync for the packagers/end users. Either way, it sounds like an (unwanted) adjustment will need to be made on the build scripts. A one off adjustment shouldn't be too much trouble - but if they fragment too much, and vary the version numbers too sparsely too often - F'em

That is something I've always admired about KDE - their version scheme. Everything had cohesion. I do fear the future to be Gnome like, where you have version 4.7 for Dolphin, 4.7.1 for Phonon, Gwenview just released (major bug fix) 4.7.2, and needs libnepomukutils 4.7.2, but libnepomukutils 4.7.2 will not build against Dolphin 4.7.1 ......

oh no ,for me, no kde ,no linux...

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I know that's all just bonus stuff, but since I've switched primarily back to KDE for the past few weeks, having not used it for a VERY long time, the only thing that's really bothering me right now is Thunar.

Sure, Dolphin's kewl. But I've gotten so attached to the straight-forward simplicity of Thunar that it's really bugging me that it's all messed up in KDE - EVERYTHING Looks like a document - even folders (The pun would be everything looks like a nail and I'm a hammer LOL).

I haven't really investigated or searched for a cure, other than Xfce itself, because it's minor, but irritating, while under Xfce, all my KDE apps worked just fine.


The Larry Ellison Slaughter...

I think what we're really talking about here isn't whether Slackware, or some other distribution is going to drop KDE, but rather, if KDE is going to make it impossible for itself to be supported by distros (At least wrt a fairly recent release of KDE).


So what's your problem dude? don't you enjoy the kind of nightmares made famous by RPM Hell?

i.e., something as simple as wanting to install weechat 0.3.5 RC2 a month ago would have taken me all the way down to glibc on CentOS 5.6, might have taken me a week - and prolly would have broken half of everything else in the box too!

Yup, like that

I for one use exclusively KDE and would be sad it's kicked out of Slackware, as I've always found Slack KDE packages quite stable and complete.
But if it had to happen, then I'm sure a community-driven project like Dropline or GS would appear for Slack and I'll gladly use their packages or compile mine as I've done for several years.
So I won't drop Slackware because KDE's dropped.

Pat's response in this thread indicates that meaningful discussions are now under way. That does not mean the problem is resolved or will be resolved, but that a palatable solution to all parties is now more probable.

Nonetheless, I am dismayed by those folks who responded that they don't use KDE and stated or implied they could care less what happens. I believe such a cavalier attitude is short-sighted. A decision to drop KDE affects all Slackware users in one way or another.

KDE is the only full major desktop environment available for Slackware. Dropping KDE could cause political kickback. The Slackware team had to work hard to get the upstream KDE developers to help with getting KDE to work in Slackware because of PolicyKit and ConsoleKit dependencies. Dropping KDE could see the upstream KDE developers discontinue that support, making life hard for anybody who wanted to maintain KDE independently. Dropping KDE could mean other upstream developers would see Slackware as a fringe distro and not be well motivated to help with integration issues. I am not saying this would happen, but I can envision such a reaction throughout the various free/libre software communities.

Slackware already suffers ostracizing from upstream providers to some degree. Seldom are prepackaged binaries for Slackware available when upstream developers provide pre-made packages.

As mentioned already by others, other distros have many more developers to handle significant packaging changes. The Slackware team does not have that kind of availability. I suspect if the debate came down to dropping KDE versus handling the different packaging requirements that a few people would volunteer to help the core development team. I hope Pat considers that option before dropping KDE, if that decision becomes a reality.

I suspect if KDE was dropped that other people outside the core development team would keep the desktop alive for Slackware, much like GNOME and Trinity.

For the record, I still use KDE3, compiled by myself and at my own expense. Yet I always keep open the doors to using KDE4 and more than likely would use KDE4 more often if only I could solve the problem of obnoxious tooltips. Yet my non-usage of KDE4 in no way implies I don't care about this packaging discussion.

As a side note, that I am able to build KDE3 on my own is a testament to Pat's philosophy to patch upstream packages as little as possible. When I first started helping with the Trinity project the bulk of my time was helping the developers undo downstream patching made by the Debian and Ubuntu folks.

I have used KDE4 enough to know that the default settings are more than a tad top-heavy for anybody using older hardware. I understand the claims of KDE4 being bloated. I disagree that the defaults from upstream should presume bleeding edge hardware. Most of the eye-candy should be disabled as the default. Perhaps changing these defaults could be an exception to Pat's approach toward modifying upstream sources as little as possible. Yet KDE4 can be tamed and I have done so myself. Regardless, KDE is and always has been a full comprehensive desktop environment and that is a primary reason the software has been popular.

Xfce and basic window managers might satisfy certain users at the edges of the bell curve, but a majority of people prefer a comprehensive desktop environment. The full KDE comes with many more packages than Xfce. Xfce is not a full desktop like KDE. I suspect if Xfce became the primary desktop for Slackware that Pat and the team would need to add many GTK packages to fill the void left by KDE and to push Xfce into an equivalent robust environment. Further, even if some people do not use KDE as a primary desktop, many people use individual apps from KDE, such as K3B. The challenge would be how to package such individual apps or find replacements. Lots of work for Pat and the crew. I'm sure then that dropping KDE is not a decision Pat and the team takes lightly.

One way or another a decision to drop KDE would affect all Slackware users. Such a decision should not be treated so flippantly by non-KDE users.

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I agree with much of this, but mostly with the parts quoted!

gargamel

@Woodsman and gargamel:
I'm not being flippant, I'm just being honest. I don't expect any of the KDE users to rush to the defense of Fluxbox or XFCE if either of those were facing the chopping block.

Personally I'd like to seen a few WMs get added, rather than see any get removed. (In particular: wmii, ratpoison, awesome, or xmonad.) However if any one package (or collection of packages) is putting undue burden on Pat and the team, and especially if it is one that I don't rely on, then I would rather see it removed then continue to be a thorn in Slackware's side. If the problem can be resolved without needing to remove KDE then I would have no problem with that either.

Don't forget we are also cavalier and short-sighted for stating our point of view about KDE.

Woodsman,

Please lighten-up a bit with the name calling and labeling. I'm not worried about KDE because Pat and the team are highly competent, capable, and expert problem solvers. They are fully aware of all of the ramifications associated with the removal of any DE. PV always gets it right.

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Although I use xmonad, despite its lightweight runtime capability it most certainly isn't lightweight in terms of build-time (or configuration) dependencies. I'd rather grab this myself and keep what exists already. The others, perhaps (though awesome may take a bit to keep up with too ).

I occasionally use KDE applications despite having no stomach for KDE4 itself, so I would be disappointed with its removal. Of course, I don't think it will be removed at a whim so I'm currently not overly fearful at present.

Not to thread hi-jack but the answer to this (happens using thunar in openbox for me) is to use something like gtk-chtheme [slackbuilds.org] to pick a gtk theme (I just use the xfce one) and then edit the resulting ~/.gtkrc-2.0 and add gtk-icon-theme-name = "Name-of-icon-set" Example: gtk-icon-theme-name = "Tango".


On topic, I wouldn't really mind seeing KDE removed. I want to like it, but it doesn't ever seem stable to me and uses too much resources. However I do like a fair few KDE applications, k3b, dolphin, amarok etc. If, for example, Slackware were to start shipping Xfce as it's default WM, I'd think you'd need to replace all of those very handy KDE applications with alternatives for it to be a successful idea.

Which is based on this law:

*nix == everything is a file


gargamel

Hitest,

Please lighten up --- I did not call anybody names. I offered a description of a repeated response found in this thread. If the words cavalier and flippant are too much, how about nonchalant and lackadaisical? The effect is the same --- removing KDE would affect all Slackware users.

I mentioned that in my post too.