OTOH, if a project is dead, the probably of someone actually answering the question "Is this project dead?" with a "Yes" is close to nil.

After that little bit of snark...

If people look at the Slackware website and decide that since the latest news was from 2016-07-01 (since that's what shows up when you go there), then maybe changing the website to show the -current changelog by default would show that it isn't dead.

Or even http://www.slackware.com/changelog/s...php?cpu=x86_64 would show recent life and support as a default page.

In the final analysis, my income has no relationship to how people interpret the http://www.slackware.com/ webpage; that impacts Mr. Volkerding more than anyone commenting here. I seem to remember that the code behind that page was a bit of mess and that he was reluctant to touch it.

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What is that old adage?
Something about, if a tree falls in the forest and there is no one around, does it make a sound?
Every time this comes up I'm reminded of the late Gary Kildall, R.I.P.

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Likewise. I don't get on this forum much because my interests are predominantly based around Slackware ARM, and by choice.

Your post triggered a walk down memory lane for me where I recalled numerous discussions over the years about the right and wrong ways of doing certain things in Slackware - and why. It's great that Slackware is so diverse, and rich, and complete, in that it affords users the ability to do things in multiple ways. I would relay that the right way to do anything is via the method(s) that result in satisfactory success, and of which is acceptable. That in itself is very subjective. So, I try to be empathetic towards users, new and old, in order to operate from their understanding, instead of my own.

When it comes to my POV and opinion of what Slackware is or should be, I just take it from what's already been published from official sources. If I'm still unsure then I usually ask someone appropriate to tell me what my opinion is regarding Slackware.

Definitely you don't sound like newbie. It reminds me discussion between reach people how is it to be poor. One of is always poor's advocate.

It's poetry. OpenBSD has its own song. Maybe we should do the same?

Surely the real difference between the Slackware system of package management and something like apt is that Slackware does not handle dependencies and therefore does not need to maintain a complex and delicate dependency database. Whether the process of downloading packages is automated or not hardly matters. Slackpkg is just a skin over pkgtools in the same way as apt is a skin over dpkg. And pkgtools, unlike the dpkg system, is just a bundle of shell scripts that works with a directory of text-based package description files, so it's easy to debug.
Again, the reason why people sometimes have to spend time fixing multiple breaks in the automated packaging systems of other distros is not that they are automated but rather that they are based on an intrinsically complicated database system. In Debian, you could download packages by hand from the repos and install them with dpkg but it would still be complicated and potentially fragile because of the underlying complexity of the system. Conversely, using slackpkg doesn't really add any complications at all; you're just speeding up the manual process.

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I am the noobest noob who ever noobed!

If you're accusing me of being an advocate of Slackware [ARM] then I plead, "Guilty as charged!", Your Honour.

Yes some of Exaga noob posts in Slackware - ARM forum can be very jaffa.

Setting aside the obvious problems with internet trolling... I have to share some real life experience.


Whenever I bring up slackware in the *real world*, the first thing people do is pull up their web browser and go to the website. First impressions matter to people and the first impression any normal person is going to have is that slackware is dead. This isn't a matter of being a guru, or experienced linux user. Unless an experienced user tells you that Slackware is alive and well, all signs point to dead. And bear in mind that I work in the tech field. The people I interact with on a daily basis are far beyond the average user in terms of computer knowledge. And even THEY look at me like some sort of wierdo because I'm getting all excited over a dead operating system.


I can't tell you how many times I've run into this. Just my experience from outside the scope of cyberspace..

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I do agree that a lack of activity on the Slackware site could lead some to believing it is dead. But how many of your coworkers would find the very active Slackware forum, create a new account, and then create a post -- all while there were probably posts made while you were creating the account and the post -- asking if Slackware was dead?

I do think it'd be a good idea to update the Slackware site so it is more visible that there is ongoing development of Slackware. Or some blog posts with regular updates (although, I don't believe Pat has a desire to start a blog and it would only take time away from Slackware itself). But the reality of it is I really doubt the website is the biggest reason people expect it's dead. It has just lost a large amount of users over the years as many distro maintainers have decided to apply the KISS principle for its users rather than the OS. This has caused Slackware to become less and less known, and when people are aware of it, they think Slackware is "hard". So when people hear of Slackware and are somewhat familiar enough with it to recognize the name, many just assume it no longer exists because in the minds of many, it doesn't to them anymore.

@bassmadrigal, I believe the conversation has wandered away from the OP's being a troll or not and more to "How many people simply conclude that Slackware is dead after visiting the Slackware website?"

Maybe the new conversation needs it's own thread. We've passed 10 pages of posts to answer a yes/no question so I don't know about you guys, but I'm embarassed and I wasn't even here when the party started!

"Perception is 99% of every thing."

You certainly have a point with regards to the perception of Slackware in general. I have experienced much the same response/reaction to Slackware in the business world. Especially where RHEL/CentOS or Debian derivatives are dominant. There seems to be some aversion to Slackware which is all completely unjustified. Some of the time it boils down to personal preference. Most of the time it's due to an inaccurate/incomplete perception of Slackware and any disinformation that may have been acknowledged. So, when someone asks, "Is Slackware dead?" it's not an ignorant question if the one asking it has limited information and hasn't taken the time to investigate. If all they have read/seen was the slackware.com homepage then that possibility becomes a probability. Subsequently finding their way to the Slackware LQ forum, registering and posting, is another matter for another time/thread.

I've read some very misleading things about Slackware on the Internet in my time. Some by those who should really know better! This only serves to facilitate disinformation and traduce the Slackware brand. Such as "Slackware is an old OS that you may find it hard getting support for" and "Slackware is not a modern OS - it's so old it doesn't even run systemd!" and "Whenever anyone asks what their first Linux distro should be there's always some clown who mentions Slackware". However untrue or misinformed these kind of statements are, they are relayed from people who are not as well informed as they could be. Or their Slackware-related experience is unfavourable, for whatever reason. This is only part of the problem and it's got little to do with Slackware, Patrick's methods, or any of the Slackware Team guys or what they do.

I've also witnessed an aversion to Slackware from other Linux distro users because of their previous experience and dealings with Slackers over the Internet. There have been a few occasions where the name Slackware invokes a "Oh you're another know-it-all Slacker!" response in certain circles. For example, I spend a lot of my Slackware ARM time compiling on the Raspberry Pi and I have a lot of interest and dealings with the RPi GitHub repository. If I have questions or need information I have in the past gone to the RPi forums... and been addressed with apparent animosity and lacklustre replies. "WTF?!?!? Why?" Without names or dates involved, there's been a few Slackers who have visited those forums prior to me who have projected themselves as practically "Linux-Gods" while using the Slackware name like some kind of trophy as an endorsement of their omniscience. I recall one thread on the RPi forums where a Slacker questioned the competence and professionalism of the RPi Foundation's lead developer. I've seen this mentality all too often where Slackware users try to make others believe they are 'superior' and in the *real world* we all know (or should know) that this is nothing but wild fantasy and fabrication. This kind of attitude is another part of the problem and a reason why Slackware isn't so easily accepted where it could and should be in many areas. It has everything to do with how Slackers project themselves on the Internet and the way in which they promote Slackware in general.

It might be prudent for all Slackers to bear in mind what 'Slackware' is, what it means to them, why they use it, and what it's good for. Me included. Nobody is much impressed by how far up the Linux-guru ladder we might be, or like to think we are.

HAHA! This is so off-topic but true! Jaffa cakes stimulate the mind and empowers users with the ability to Slack much more efficiently and productively. Slackware + Jaffa cakes is "The Future!" This hypothesis is based on first-hand experience of using Slackware over long periods of time while Jaffa cake consumption is concurrent, and can be attributed to the side-effects of quantum entanglement, where the manifest signs of increased Slackware awareness, perception, confidence, and successfulness are apparent - especially while working remotely [i.e. 'spooky action at a distance']. If Patrick ate Jaffa cakes while coding we'd probably be running "Slackware128 35.1 Qubit" release right now!

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Unfortunately, yes.

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Unfortunately they are not misinformed. We have a couple of people in this forum (naming no names) who regularly recommend Slackware to newbies as a first Linux system. The only people who might benefit from that are old farts like me who worked in offices and libraries in the 1980s and find the command line blessedly familiar after all that complex and confusing graphical stuff. Certainly not young people who were weaned on iPhones.

Young people do not appreciate KISS. They want systems that are simple-as-in-easy, not simple-as-in-simplicity. When they are more accustomed to Linux, they may find their way to Slackware and love it, but starting too early is simply going to put them off.

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