SlackwareThis Forum is for the discussion of Slackware Linux.
Notices
Welcome to LinuxQuestions.org, a friendly and active Linux Community.
You are currently viewing LQ as a guest. By joining our community you will have the ability to post topics, receive our newsletter, use the advanced search, subscribe to threads and access many other special features. Registration is quick, simple and absolutely free. Join our community today!
Note that registered members see fewer ads, and ContentLink is completely disabled once you log in.
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you need to reset your password, click here.
Having a problem logging in? Please visit this page to clear all LQ-related cookies.
Get a virtual cloud desktop with the Linux distro that you want in less than five minutes with Shells! With over 10 pre-installed distros to choose from, the worry-free installation life is here! Whether you are a digital nomad or just looking for flexibility, Shells can put your Linux machine on the device that you want to use.
Exclusive for LQ members, get up to 45% off per month. Click here for more info.
I could probably install something made in the late 90s on Windows 10.
I hate to burst your bubble there pal, but no you can't. I challenge you to try it.
Compatibility mode only works for simple programs and certainly will not work for anything with heavy graphics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadicalDreamer
I can't do that with Linux.
Slackware comes with a package called xv. This program was written in 1994. It has been included in Slackware for a very long time. Check it out.
That aside, if you run a multi-lib setup, Wine can and does allow you to run software which was written for Windows 98... and it'll most likely do it better than Windows 10 can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadicalDreamer
Linux software isn't like Win32 API that'll work on Win 95 and Windows 10 because the apps come with what they need with Windows.
Windows 95 software will not work with Windows 10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadicalDreamer
in Linux you have to have the right libraries installed so you can use the software that you want to use.
Did you ever try to install something in Windows and it says that you need to install the Microsfot Visceral C+-=%+ Redistributable package version 2017.3.45.7912? What do you think is in that package??
I recently migrated a windows 98 Pentium III to a dual core Windows XP system lol. The company is running an ancient DOS billing program with no backup or way to reinstall it. I told them they need to start making plans to switch to a more modern billing software but I doubt they will. I seriously think windows xp will still be around for a while to come.
Just to run a DOS program? You could try DOSBox, or you could run FreeDOS in a VM (which would allow you to limit the resources it can use). Either of those would let you run a modern OS with all of the updated security while maintaining the ability to run the old software.
To note that that's even when the KWin effects are disabled and ONLY while using Plasma5. KDE4 works perfectly in the same computer.
It's apparent that the actual crashes occur in the X.Org Radeon driver and/or in the Radeon DRI library of the mesa package. That means the bug is probably not in kwin or qt5, although those could be the trigger for the actual bug in the Radeon driver.
Can you share any customizations you made to the xorg.conf files and also, can you share a /var/log/Xorg.0.log after this issue occurs?
It's apparent that the actual crashes occur in the X.Org Radeon driver and/or in the Radeon DRI library of the mesa package. That means the bug is probably not in kwin or qt5, although those could be the trigger for the actual bug in the Radeon driver.
Can you share any customizations you made to the xorg.conf files and also, can you share a /var/log/Xorg.0.log after this issue occurs?
Eric, I use NO customization of X.org configuration at all, it is just like it loves to bring the things up.
Also, nothing suspect shows in /var/log/Xorg.0.log and it ends like:
Again, I would like to remind you that this story happens exactly in the same way and only while using Plasma5 (standard -current with KDE4 is not affected), even with KWin effects disabled at all, and after a clean reboot and a brand new user account.
Last edited by Darth Vader; 06-24-2018 at 05:20 AM.
I hate to burst your bubble there pal, but no you can't. I challenge you to try it.
Compatibility mode only works for simple programs and certainly will not work for anything with heavy graphics.
Slackware comes with a package called xv. This program was written in 1994. It has been included in Slackware for a very long time. Check it out.
That aside, if you run a multi-lib setup, Wine can and does allow you to run software which was written for Windows 98... and it'll most likely do it better than Windows 10 can.
Windows 95 software will not work with Windows 10.
Did you ever try to install something in Windows and it says that you need to install the Microsfot Visceral C+-=%+ Redistributable package version 2017.3.45.7912? What do you think is in that package??
Challenge accepted and won! I just copied the Data disc on to Windows 10 64 Bit and hit WINQUAKE. It worked (proof in screenshot below). Now get a 90s Linux Binary of Quake 1 and do that in Slackware64 14.2 multilib without any gimmicks. Also GLQUAKE.EXE works fine if I remove OPENGL32.DLL from the Data directory! A 90s OpenGL program works today with a Pascal video card and Windows 10!
Last edited by RadicalDreamer; 06-24-2018 at 05:38 AM.
Your X.Org log shows that X.Org (since 1.16 I think) is enabling GLAMOR 2d acceleration by default, but that is not the best option for older Radeon cards (and some other cards too). It may well be the cause of your graphical artefacts.
And again, it is not KWin that is buggy. It's KWin that is expecting behaviour of the graphics driver by querying X.Org for its capabilities and then using those capabilities. If the driver reports capabilities that should in fact not be used, then issues are the result. That is not the fault of KWin, or Plasma, or KDE developers.
Try disabling 2D accelerated graphics completely by adding this (my liveslak will enable this too if you add "tweaks=nga" to the boot commandline):
Challenge accepted and won! I just copied the Data disc on to Windows 10 64 Bit and hit WINQUAKE. It worked (proof in screenshot below). Now get a 90s Linux Binary of Quake 1 and do that in Slackware64 14.2 multilib without any gimmicks. Also GLQUAKE.EXE works fine if I remove OPENGL32.DLL from the Data directory! A 90s OpenGL program works today with a Pascal video card and Windows 10!
Yeah, but Quake runs on anything.
Original 1990 DOS binary of Sierra's Jones in the Fast Lane running on Slackware64-current (9-Jun-2018):
Original 1990 DOS binary of Sierra's Jones in the Fast Lane running on Slackware64-current (9-Jun-2018):
Yes Slackware64-Current can run old DOS binaries and Windows programs (you can run Wii U games on it too) with the appropriate program but can it run a program built for Linux from the 90s? I managed to get Doom 2016 with Vulkan support to work in Wine Staging awhile back. My argument was that Linux and Microsoft ecosystems are different. That it is easier to continue to use legacy software built for Windows than it is for Linux. I just think that people who like KDE 4 would be happier with Windows because it is specifically designed to use legacy software perpetually. There is no Wine for Linux that can run old KDE 4 Linux binaries. I wish someone would appimage KDE 4 and be done with it.
To answer the question. Is Plasma5 Ready for Inclusion in Slackware? Yes I believe it is ready.
Plasma 5 has worked fine for me since Eric first introduced it in Ktown, that is when I shifted to Plasma 5. I just recently shifted to his testing branch (Plasma 5.13.0). I have seen very little glitches with Plasma 5. I am very satisfied with it. I've been using KDE since the GNOME removal, used Xfce for a short while (reminded me of CDE), KDE ever since. I've grown accustom to using KDE over the years. Didn't like it at first, but that was ages ago, I've adapted. I've put the task bar on the top, my favorite place; even added a Slackware logo to the Application Launcher. I discovered the Icon-Only Task bar, actually have to give that credit to Dedoimedo. I find Plasma quite configurable, maybe a bit too configurable. KDE Connect is just awesome. Other programs of note are Digikam, Kdenlive, KDE Connect, Dophin and Kate.
Now some rambling. I don't use Xfce, so no issues with KDE messing up that. As for all the configuration files, text editable is a good thing in my humble opinion. I like that, learned to take advantage of that. It was mentioned a lot of programs now make use of .config and .local (XDG Base Directory Specification), see nothing wrong with that. I remember when GNOME was dropped, man was I pissed, I went distro shopping, guess how that turned out. I am of the option that KDE 5, Plasma 5 is better than KDE4. I'm kind of surprised that some are saying ATI (AMD) cards are more compatible to Linux. I seem to recall the opposite. Maybe things have changed. I've always considered NVIDIA the card for Linux, so far I have not been disappointed, aside from the fact my installed desktop cards are now considered legacy. I've never bought an AMD card. My attempt to use the AMD driver on a AMD motherboard failed. The MB now has a NVIDA card. My GPU temp is currently at 39C; gaming kicks that up a bit. I only know of one person who will drop $1000 on a video card, certainly not me. I have zero problems with printing, one printer on this machine (Canon MP-258) accessible to my home network. The scanner part works as well.
I do have some complaints with Plasma, it could load faster, of course I rarely restart, unless there is a kernel update (here lately quite a few, but that what comes with -current). My new Acer Aspire laptop had Windows 10 on it, yuck! I was worse that Plasma, once in a while faster, most other time slower, not to mention shutting down took 'forever' if there were updates. Not cool on a laptop. Just before I made an the final recover USB and disk image before wiping and installing Slackware64-current I had to wait 6 hours for an update to finish (laptop is not mine, but mine to use). Over all I'm very happy with Plasma 5 on that laptop. Baloo is another, finally figured it out though, don't allow it to index file content. I don't use any of the Akonadi Agents, but not a really an issue. I think it was mentioned that Calligra is worthless, sort of agree with that; especially the spreadsheet. LibreOffice is much better. I run as a user, never root with KDE. I use Kate for most of my script writing, Konsole with 'su -' to do rootly things, nano and mc come in handy. Once in a while I use kdesu from the Konsole. Don't care for KTorrent, Prefer qBittorrent, seeding Slackware right now. Kmail, well just haven't given it a chance, Claws Mail suits me just fine. KMyMoney is good, but GNUCash is better. QuitRSS beats Akregator any day.
glxinfo output for this computer:
OpenGL renderer string: GeForce GT 730/PCIe/SSE2
OpenGL core profile version string: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 390.67
OpenGL version string: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 390.67
OpenGL ES profile version string: OpenGL ES 3.2 NVIDIA 390.67
for the Acer Aspire cause it's accessible (used KDE Connect with Clipboard plugin enabled so I can paste it here):
OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Intel(R) HD Graphics 620 (Kaby Lake GT2)
OpenGL core profile version string: 4.5 (Core Profile) Mesa 18.1.2
OpenGL version string: 3.0 Mesa 18.1.2
OpenGL ES profile version string: OpenGL ES 3.2 Mesa 18.1.2
This computer an AMD Phenom II X4 840 Processor with 8GB RAM and a NVIDIA GeForce GT 730
Additional computers using Plasma 5 (testing):
AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Processor with 8GB RAM and a NVIDIA GeForce GT 730
Aspire laptop with an 4x Intel Core i3-7130U Processor with 4GB RAM and a Intel HD Graphics 620.
Sony VAIO laptop with an Intel Core 2 Duo P8600 Processor with 3GB RAM and ATI Radeon HD 3470.
There is a lot of cool things about KDE Plasma 5 and I think it's ready, not the testing branch of Ktown, but the latest branch. Even if it doesn't make it this time to 15.0, I hope it makes -current after that at least. Not an issue either way as long a Eric still has his Ktown, I'll be using KDE because I like it.
Last edited by chrisretusn; 06-24-2018 at 08:54 AM.
Distribution: Slackware64-current with "True Multilib" and KDE4Town.
Posts: 9,105
Original Poster
Rep:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen
......That aside, if you run a multi-lib setup, Wine can and does allow you to run software which was written for Windows 98... and it'll most likely do it better than Windows 10 can.......
For many years I've managed to run two very old programs I really like, and haven't found anything as good to replace them, on the Slackware desktop.
The first is the original "American Heritage Electronic Dictionary", which was written to run in windows-3.1 It runs perfectly in WINE. The updated version, complete with illustrations, runs equally as well.
The second is a client database/tracking program called, "Broker's Ally" from the the late 1980s. It runs perfectly in dosemu. Tried dosbox, but found it runs better in dosemu.
Last edited by cwizardone; 06-25-2018 at 11:23 PM.
Reason: Typo.
I managed to get Doom 2016 with Vulkan support to work in Wine Staging awhile back.
I am burning with curiosity now...how did you manage that? I have tried, and tried, and tried again to get DOOM 2016 to run with Wine Staging, and I just cannot get it to work. I have endlessly Googled for help, but to no avail. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!
If you could private message me with the details, that would save this thread from becoming off-topic. However you want to do it, either direct reply or PM is fine with me.
Your X.Org log shows that X.Org (since 1.16 I think) is enabling GLAMOR 2d acceleration by default, but that is not the best option for older Radeon cards (and some other cards too). It may well be the cause of your graphical artefacts.
And again, it is not KWin that is buggy. It's KWin that is expecting behaviour of the graphics driver by querying X.Org for its capabilities and then using those capabilities. If the driver reports capabilities that should in fact not be used, then issues are the result. That is not the fault of KWin, or Plasma, or KDE developers.
Try disabling 2D accelerated graphics completely by adding this (my liveslak will enable this too if you add "tweaks=nga" to the boot commandline):
Master Eric-wan Kenobi, thanks for the tuning suggestions, BUT now is clear who's in fault for those two issues, talking abut the graphic artifacts and KWin magically disabling its effects on reboot:
I say that because Plasma 5.13.1 on top of Qt-5.11.1 works well from this POV with no X.org configuration tuning. No artifacts and no effects disabled on reboot.
OK, there's still the Baloo crash and it still has to learn to read its own configuration files, but at least it is usable.
So, I strongly suggest you to forget about the LTS thing, it is still a huge pile of crap, and to focus strongly on Plasma 5.13.1.
IF ever will be adopted that Plasma5 in Slackware, this one, the Plasma 5.13.1 (or a later one) is worth for, in my opinion.
Definitively NOT the current LTS thing, because it behave like a crap with these budget Radeon video-cards and probably there are many other faults.
As bottom line, as was demonstrated by the reality check, you do not need a $1000 video-card for running a goddamned DE. Even a $50 one is more than enough.
Heck, even the latest Windows has no requirements such skyrocketing.
And sincere congratulations for Plasma 5.13.1; this one is really good in comparation with the previous ones!
Last edited by Darth Vader; 06-25-2018 at 06:35 AM.
Challenge accepted and won! I just copied the Data disc on to Windows 10 64 Bit and hit WINQUAKE. It worked (proof in screenshot below). Now get a 90s Linux Binary of Quake 1 and do that in Slackware64 14.2 multilib without any gimmicks. Also GLQUAKE.EXE works fine if I remove OPENGL32.DLL from the Data directory! A 90s OpenGL program works today with a Pascal video card and Windows 10!
I would wager a testicle that it is running under WINE Microsoft hid in their internals.
Yes Slackware64-Current can run old DOS binaries and Windows programs (you can run Wii U games on it too) with the appropriate program but can it run a program built for Linux from the 90s?
Just my 2 cents, but I still occasionally play Loki games' Alpha Centauri, Kohan: Immortal Sovereign, Heroes of Might and Magic 3, Rune, SimCity3000 and others. They all still play fine on my slackware-current (as of today) system.
Alpha Centauri came out in about 1997 or 98. Heroes and SimCity were 1999 I think.
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing
Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute
content, let us know.
. Screencasts courtesy of FFmpeg btw...
